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Spence LSD Guide Picogroup Offline Posts: 8,025 Jeffersonville Pennsylvania USA Gender:	Re: Harley In Cylinder Compression Test Reply #15 - Aug 13^th, 2017 at 3:19am As promised cranking compression.
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Spence LSD Guide Picogroup Offline Posts: 8,025 Jeffersonville Pennsylvania USA Gender:	Re: Harley In Cylinder Compression Test Reply #16 - Aug 13^th, 2017 at 3:26am And running compression...
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Spence LSD Guide Picogroup Offline Posts: 8,025 Jeffersonville Pennsylvania USA Gender:	Re: Harley In Cylinder Compression Test Reply #17 - Aug 13^th, 2017 at 3:35am I should mention I did NOT have a WPS hose for this spark plug size. I used a compression hose and adapter shown in the pictures below which when we have compared to a WPS setup the Snap on configuration had a 10% lower reading.
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StitchB

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Re: Harley In Cylinder Compression Test
Reply #18 - Aug 13^th, 2017 at 7:08am

rayray wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 7:57am:

Hi James, can post a cranking waveform with the WPS in the tailpipe and is there center port in the intake?

Ray

James H wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 7:11am:

Spence, your not going to like my answer and i am not positive but I think you have to remove the rear wheel and splash guard. You may want to change your mind and not to worry, sounds like too much grief. I checked the valve clearance and did find the front cylinder Intake was way loose .005" which makes sense with the compression waveform as the the intake timing was retarded and compression was higher than the rear cylinder waveform. The rear cyl valve clearance were both loose by .002". The engine runs better but still way leaner on the front. I am going to check intake vacuum next on both now that I have adjusted the valve clearance. I had only 10 in hg of vacuum before, that seems low to me but they were both about the same so im not sure why the front is so much leaner.

Starting too laugh here, like one of the BMW/s pull the trans to grease the Driveline, just a hoot, but sounds like you guys are on it. James, I told you Spence likes too be punished.

StitchB

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Re: Harley In Cylinder Compression Test
Reply #19 - Aug 13^th, 2017 at 7:29am

rayray wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 7:57am:

Hi James, can post a cranking waveform with the WPS in the tailpipe and is there center port in the intake?

Ray

James H wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 7:11am:

Spence, your not going to like my answer and i am not positive but I think you have to remove the rear wheel and splash guard. You may want to change your mind and not to worry, sounds like too much grief. I checked the valve clearance and did find the front cylinder Intake was way loose .005" which makes sense with the compression waveform as the the intake timing was retarded and compression was higher than the rear cylinder waveform. The rear cyl valve clearance were both loose by .002". The engine runs better but still way leaner on the front. I am going to check intake vacuum next on both now that I have adjusted the valve clearance. I had only 10 in hg of vacuum before, that seems low to me but they were both about the same so im not sure why the front is so much leaner.

Starting too laugh here, like one of the BMW/s pull the trans to grease the Driveline, just a hoot, but sounds like you guys are on it. James, I told you Spence likes too be punished.

StitchB

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StitchB Super Nerd Picogroup Offline Posts: 1,314 lake stevens Washington USA Gender:	Re: Harley In Cylinder Compression Test Reply #20 - Aug 13^th, 2017 at 7:31am Spence some opinions as in the learning mode, as always.
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Spence

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Re: Harley In Cylinder Compression Test
Reply #21 - Aug 13^th, 2017 at 9:22am

StitchB wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 7:08am:

rayray wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 7:57am:

Hi James, can post a cranking waveform with the WPS in the tailpipe and is there center port in the intake?

Ray

James H wrote on Aug 12^th, 2017 at 7:11am:

Spence, your not going to like my answer and i am not positive but I think you have to remove the rear wheel and splash guard. You may want to change your mind and not to worry, sounds like too much grief. I checked the valve clearance and did find the front cylinder Intake was way loose .005" which makes sense with the compression waveform as the the intake timing was retarded and compression was higher than the rear cylinder waveform. The rear cyl valve clearance were both loose by .002". The engine runs better but still way leaner on the front. I am going to check intake vacuum next on both now that I have adjusted the valve clearance. I had only 10 in hg of vacuum before, that seems low to me but they were both about the same so im not sure why the front is so much leaner.

Starting too laugh here, like one of the BMW/s pull the trans to grease the Driveline, just a hoot, but sounds like you guys are on it. James, I told you Spence likes too be punished.

StitchB

Glad you got a chuckle out of it Larry! It really wasn't as bad as it could of been for two reasons.

1. I found the connector for the CKP just behind a bracket on the front of the frame.

2. Mick gave me a paw (translate hand) with it. Cool

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Spence

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Re: Harley In Cylinder Compression Test
Reply #22 - Aug 13^th, 2017 at 9:42am

StitchB wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 7:31am:

Spence some opinions as in the learning mode, as always.

Larry I applauded your thirst for knowledge and the way you keep pride in check when asking!

Couple of my thoughts are... The hose setup I HAD to use to get this I would be cautious on. I do NOT like the added length, the adapter I had to employ and the hose didn't feel as firm as the ones that came with the WPS.

Next this engine is horrible with the aspect of crankshaft speed variation! This is one (keyword one) of reasons I (and maybe Ray) wanted to have a CKP trace to go along with the compression wave capture. If you mark out crank rotation degrees those towers might not look as leaning. I still feel there is a bit of a lean but another hose purchase may be happening in the near future. Cool

Spence

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Mick LSD Guide Offline I learn every day Posts: 7,471 Toronto 400ft Ontario Canada Gender:	Re: Harley In Cylinder Compression Test Reply #23 - Aug 13^th, 2017 at 2:33pm Hi Larry and James The waves that Spence put up with inferior compression hoses will still show you true TDC on cranking and cranking to start. The problem starts when the speed and heat builds. James if you do yours with the crank sensor and the WPS hoses you would get a great capture.
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Re: Harley In Cylinder Compression Test
Reply #24 - Aug 13^th, 2017 at 3:38pm

Mick wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 2:33pm:

Hi Larry and James

The waves that Spence put up with inferior compression hoses will still show you true TDC on cranking and cranking to start.

The problem starts when the speed and heat builds.

James if you do yours with the crank sensor and the WPS hoses you would get a great capture.

That tower is floating at times a good 11.25 degrees.

Also depending on the year and the size of the engine Harley employs a compression release during cranking.

Just wanted you to realize it. Cool

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Spence

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Re: Harley In Cylinder Compression Test
Reply #25 - Aug 13^th, 2017 at 4:52pm

Mick wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 2:33pm:

Hi Larry and James

The waves that Spence put up with inferior compression hoses will still show you true TDC on cranking and cranking to start.

As much as I think Snap On products are junk I think the hoses could work but I think it is more the coupler used to adapt it.

Mick wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 2:33pm:

The problem starts when the speed and heat builds.

I don't see this as being that much of an issue with the tests I posted

Mick wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 2:33pm:

James if you do yours with the crank sensor and the WPS hoses you would get a great capture.

Mick see reply#6

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Mick LSD Guide Offline I learn every day Posts: 7,471 Toronto 400ft Ontario Canada Gender:	Re: Harley In Cylinder Compression Test Reply #26 - Aug 13^th, 2017 at 5:01pm Quote: Also depending on the year and the size of the engine Harley employs a compression release during cranking. Which would be accurately measured by the WPS and crankshaft sensor whilst cranking. Spence wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 3:38pm: Just wanted you to realize it. OK don't worry I go it
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Spence

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Re: Harley In Cylinder Compression Test
Reply #27 - Aug 13^th, 2017 at 5:03pm

Mick wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 5:01pm:

Spence wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 3:38pm:

Mick wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 2:33pm:

Hi Larry and James

The waves that Spence put up with inferior compression hoses will still show you true TDC on cranking and cranking to start.

The problem starts when the speed and heat builds.

James if you do yours with the crank sensor and the WPS hoses you would get a great capture.

That tower is floating at times a good 11.25 degrees.

Also depending on the year and the size of the engine Harley employs a compression release during cranking.

Just wanted you to realize it. Cool

Looks stable at cranking to me.

Spence wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 3:38pm:

Also depending on the year and the size of the engine Harley employs a compression release during cranking.

Which would be accurately measured by the WPS and crankshaft sensor whilst cranking.

Absolutely! Glad to see we agree. Cool

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Mick LSD Guide Offline I learn every day Posts: 7,471 Toronto 400ft Ontario Canada Gender:	Re: Harley In Cylinder Compression Test Reply #28 - Aug 13^th, 2017 at 5:09pm Spence wrote on Aug 13^th, 2017 at 5:03pm: Absolutely! Glad to see we agree. X1
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StitchB

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Re: Harley In Cylinder Compression Test
Reply #29 - Aug 14^th, 2017 at 3:50am

Okay, concurr with all, hose playing a part ect, just wanted too make sure that I might know something but it might just be wrong, a great quote I always use.

Did get to thinking too myself the other day after asking a question on the tower, then had the thought that my KLR does also have a compression release (of sorts) which does not actually go away until after certain RPM then cam comes back on line totally. Don't know if this is also playing into the scenario here.

All this said, the valve timing on Spences did appear to me too be where I would think, and on James was seriously skewed IMO.

Also nice too see the automotive players working with him. I told him this would pay him huge dividends. The bike world is getting sophisticated but the Dealers, and manufacuters do not or will not share the info, so it is a trial by error for most of these guys, and with no automotive back ground they are serioiusly handicapped.

Seen a post on a KTM (late model single cyl dirt bike) and the guy had it in and out of the shop for months, factory mechs ect, and still runnin issues. I wrote, get that bike out of there!!!!, find a serous ASME auto diagnostic tech, and pay him too look @ it, your chances of success will be better.

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