The Autonerdz Community Forums - Maybe Interesting to you motorcycle guys

James H

Senior Member
Picogroup

Offline

Bike Nerd

Posts: 165

Waterloo
Ontario
Canada
Gender: male

Maybe Interesting to you motorcycle guys
May 6^th, 2017 at 7:35am

I wasn't aware of any motorcycles that were using a multi strike style or multi fire ignition system up till now. It is a single 4 stroke motocross 450cc. Even more interesting that it is a CDI system. It appears to operate up till 4,500 rpm and then return back to a convectional single fire. Obviously being used to help with low speed running as it appears to extend the spark duration aprox 40%.

Back to top

Suzuki_RMZ450_2007_Petrol_20170506-0001_001.psdata (6764 KB | )

WWW

IP Logged

Mick LSD Guide Offline I learn every day Posts: 7,471 Toronto 400ft Ontario Canada Gender:	Re: Maybe Interesting to you motorcycle guys Reply #1 - May 6^th, 2017 at 9:09am James H wrote on May 6^th, 2017 at 7:35am: it appears to extend the spark duration aprox 40%. I dont know anything about CDi ignition so cant comment, but you have proved the longer spark time due to that extra pulse. Great find James
Back to top	Mick IP Logged

StitchB

Super Nerd
Picogroup

Offline

Posts: 1,314

lake stevens
Washington
USA
Gender: male

Re: Maybe Interesting to you motorcycle guys
Reply #2 - May 9^th, 2017 at 4:25am

James, this is very, and I mean very interesting. I missed the double strike completely until zoomed in.

This whole thing would, or should be posted somewhere in the bigger forum. I marked a JPEG showing where 1 MS is, yours is about 1/10 of that for a fire time. Normally in a gas engine anything less than 1 MS is broaching on the edge of a missfire due to lack of fuel, plasma from flame or mechanical issues.

This event seems to happen in 1/10 of a normal fire time. I have no idea if there is a setting issue on the screen I have missed or what the deal is here?, maybe Mick could comment.

Mick, James could explain better but most bikes run CDI ( capacative discharge ignition) always IMO I thought it nothing more than as stated supplemented with a capacitor to upscale the event, could be wrong, maybe James could chime in.

James, interesting thing with the scope is you will pick up things the others in the industry have no clue, also will over time give you a good thought process for reparing said units, meaning you now know what a good one looked like.

Good for you

StitchB AKA Larry

Back to top

Screenshot_2017-05-09_05_06_17.png (246 KB | )

IP Logged

StitchB

Super Nerd
Picogroup

Offline

Posts: 1,314

lake stevens
Washington
USA
Gender: male

Re: Maybe Interesting to you motorcycle guys
Reply #3 - May 9^th, 2017 at 4:36am

James, interesting to note and I tried to find the file for it, but seems I have lost it.

On my 03 KLR, the alt sends up an AC signal to the CDI and coil, it is never turned into DC which is normal in most casses.

Also interesting is the voltage on the said AC is about 120, about what you would find in a house socket. Also dully noted is the coil is physically about the size of a roll of nickels, IMO simply the input is 12 times greater than 12 volts so volts times amps equals watts, hence you would not need nearly the windings in the coil to make it happen.

The other interesting thing as in the picture the signatures being AC move up and down like one would think and not from a 0 point then up 12 volts but in a classic sine wave, and also the fire time on the spark plug also looks like a screw or sine wave moving up and down rather than a voltage KV spike then dying out over time.

I found the power to the coil by accident using my DVOM. Thought I had it on wrong setting when in fact it was actually making AC, not DC and @ 120, will see if I can find the file, or capture another one.

Larry

Back to top

IP Logged

Mick

LSD Guide

Offline

I learn every day

Posts: 7,471

Toronto 400ft
Ontario
Canada
Gender: male

Re: Maybe Interesting to you motorcycle guys
Reply #4 - May 9^th, 2017 at 5:19am

StitchB wrote on May 9^th, 2017 at 4:25am:

This event seems to happen in 1/10 of a normal fire time. I have no idea if there is a setting issue on the screen I have missed or what the deal is here?, maybe Mick could comment.

Good morning Larry

I took the firing time as being normal for this ignition system when measured at lower RPM because of the energy produced by the coil, so as to keep that fuel burning to completion.

Id like to see more examples. Cool

Back to top

Mick

IP Logged

rayray LSD Guide Picogroup Offline Posts: 2,207 Toronto Ontario Canada Gender:	Re: Maybe Interesting to you motorcycle guys Reply #5 - May 9^th, 2017 at 7:42am James H, can you connect an adjustable spark tester to one of the plug wires? See if the coil can fire an ST125 and scope the coil primary and secondary please. Ray
Back to top	Ray IP Logged

Mick LSD Guide Offline I learn every day Posts: 7,471 Toronto 400ft Ontario Canada Gender:	Re: Maybe Interesting to you motorcycle guys Reply #6 - May 9^th, 2017 at 8:53am rayray wrote on May 9^th, 2017 at 7:42am: James H, can you connect an adjustable spark tester to one of the plug wires? Ray it only has ONE!
Back to top	2016_Suzuki-RMZ250-07.jpg (145 KB \| ) Mick IP Logged

rayray LSD Guide Picogroup Offline Posts: 2,207 Toronto Ontario Canada Gender:	Re: Maybe Interesting to you motorcycle guys Reply #7 - May 9^th, 2017 at 1:52pm I guess one coil-on-plug extension lead from the coil to the adjustable spark tester would work? Ray
Back to top	Ray IP Logged

StitchB

Super Nerd
Picogroup

Offline

Posts: 1,314

lake stevens
Washington
USA
Gender: male

Re: Maybe Interesting to you motorcycle guys
Reply #8 - May 10^th, 2017 at 3:34am

Mick wrote on May 9^th, 2017 at 5:19am:

StitchB wrote on May 9^th, 2017 at 4:25am:

This event seems to happen in 1/10 of a normal fire time. I have no idea if there is a setting issue on the screen I have missed or what the deal is here?, maybe Mick could comment.

Good morning Larry

I took the firing time as being normal for this ignition system when measured at lower RPM because of the energy produced by the coil, so as to keep that fuel burning to completion.

Id like to see more examples. Cool

Mick, I'm with you as have 2 bikes with them but never had problems or the occasion to actually look. As you stated sure could be just how it is............which is what I suspect.

As we say on the forum, what does a good one look like, I guess we will find out?

Larry

Back to top

IP Logged

	Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register

Autonerdz forums