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fisher

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Re: 1996 Suzuki GSF600S
Reply #15 - Jul 25^th, 2016 at 9:10pm

So I got together with Doug Saros today at my victim's - I mean customer's - house in the afternoon. We find that the amp probe I was using does not operate according to what it's setting says.
We found using his PICO 30 amp clamp came up with something more reasonable to me. The spark LOOKS like a 3 amp spark. We found if I wanted to see the waveform at 20 amp scale that we ought set the scale to 1mV = 100mA.It changed our pattern in a pleasing way. Then we hooked up the PICO 30A to both coils at once. I am having trouble loading a gif file so no snapshots, You gotta open the PSD file.

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Suzuki_GSF600_S_Bandit_1996_Petrol_primary__coil_one_side_07_25_2016.psdata (611 KB | )

Suzuki_GSF600_S_Bandit_1996_Petrol__primary_current_two_coils_at_once_07_25_2016.psdata (608 KB | )

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fisher Super Nerd Picogroup Offline Deceased Posts: 2,734 Concord California USA Gender:	Re: 1996 Suzuki GSF600S Reply #16 - Jul 25^th, 2016 at 9:25pm I would like to compare the two captures to a known good set of equivalent or identical motorcycle coils.
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fisher Super Nerd Picogroup Offline Deceased Posts: 2,734 Concord California USA Gender:	Re: 1996 Suzuki GSF600S Reply #17 - Jul 26^th, 2016 at 7:11am So, why was there a lean condition in my previous captures? I had the fuel tank removed from the bike for access. So I will post more here later. Thanks for help, Mick and Doug. I have rigged a canister for to hold gasoline and bought clean new gas.
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Mick

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Re: 1996 Suzuki GSF600S
Reply #18 - Jul 26^th, 2016 at 9:50am

fisher wrote on Jul 25^th, 2016 at 9:25pm:

I would like to compare the two captures to a known good set of equivalent or identical motorcycle coils.

Well you didn't set the scope up Smiley

like I recommended and now you can see the 2us sample interval points when you zoom in on the turn off. It turned off fast enough but IF we needed to know if it turned off faster we would not be able to confirm it. Cheesy

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Mick

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Mick LSD Guide Offline I learn every day Posts: 7,471 Toronto 400ft Ontario Canada Gender:	Re: 1996 Suzuki GSF600S Reply #19 - Jul 26^th, 2016 at 9:52am fisher wrote on Jul 26^th, 2016 at 7:11am: So, why was there a lean condition in my previous captures? I had the fuel tank removed from the bike for access. That would do it
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fisher Super Nerd Picogroup Offline Deceased Posts: 2,734 Concord California USA Gender:	Re: 1996 Suzuki GSF600S Reply #20 - Jul 26^th, 2016 at 2:15pm Look at these...when the plugs fire, the module fails. See the missing ignition events? It would start if the module did not stop controlling the coil. The other capture is with the fuel removed. No gasoline burning, no load on coil...
Back to top	Antonio_s_bike_no_gas__no_firing_events__all_ign_mod_output_present.jpg (206 KB \| ) Antonio_s_bike_loses_coil_control_when_spark_events_occur.jpg (212 KB \| ) IP Logged

Mick LSD Guide Offline I learn every day Posts: 7,471 Toronto 400ft Ontario Canada Gender:	Re: 1996 Suzuki GSF600S Reply #21 - Jul 26^th, 2016 at 4:38pm fisher wrote on Jul 26^th, 2016 at 2:15pm: Look at these. I would like the files. Your drop box folder would be a good place for them.
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fisher Super Nerd Picogroup Offline Deceased Posts: 2,734 Concord California USA Gender:	Re: 1996 Suzuki GSF600S Reply #22 - Jul 26^th, 2016 at 6:03pm I just loaded them onto the drop site in PSD files under fisher.
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fisher

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Re: 1996 Suzuki GSF600S
Reply #23 - Jul 26^th, 2016 at 7:11pm

When I saw that the signals all dropped out between the firing events (except for the VRS), I decided to take a look at all the wiring going to the module as I cranked. I got so far as the to see the power from the battery and what is ground. I am noticing the ground has a high voltage drop. The ground is across the ignition switch, from battery to module. I measured at the module. I am wondering if that high drop is the issue.

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Suzuki_GSF_600_S_wiring_diagram_1996.jpg (173 KB | )

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fisher Super Nerd Picogroup Offline Deceased Posts: 2,734 Concord California USA Gender:	Re: 1996 Suzuki GSF600S Reply #24 - Jul 27^th, 2016 at 6:50am That is a high voltage drop, KOEO. I am going to jumper that direct to ground KOEO and see if that makes any difference.
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fisher

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Re: 1996 Suzuki GSF600S
Reply #25 - Jul 28^th, 2016 at 10:10am

I did get as far as trying to start the motor with that circuit grounded by a jumper wire independent of the ignition switch and it did not start. Unfortuneately, I did not get a waveform of it.
I measured ohms resistance across the terminals of the switch and measured 120 ohms across the switch when circuit is closed. That doesn't seem right.
I thought that if the module shut down it might be because the poor ground prevents enough current flow to keep some capacitive circuit saturated. I need the waveform. It sounded the same; a sputter or two but no light-off.
There two grounds to the moduel. You will see that in the posted wiring diagram if you zoom in. Windows photo viewer allows that.
One of the grounds is straight ground to module and the other is provided at engine run position on the ignition switch. I am assuming the one provided by the switch is for controls.
Your thoughts are welcome. I want to decide or not the replacement module -a used one - is no good.

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fisher

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Re: 1996 Suzuki GSF600S
Reply #26 - Jul 31^st, 2016 at 8:07am

I know you guys are dying to know what is going to happen here.
I had left a neutral feedback on Ebay for the folk whom sold me the ignition module. I stated it did not work.
They wrote back and have offered to send another. I will probably take the offer. My friend , the owner and I discussed that we made a mistake, especially me that we got this far in refurbishing the bike without finding out about parts availability. The module is expensive but worse,it is obsolete, no longer sold by Suzuki. I have been finding it to be unavailable except used. So from a business sense this bike is unrepairable as long as we aren't going to customize it with our own ignition we and dont have an alternative.
My friend is supportive and not angry with me, for that I am thankful.
I mentioned that the ignition switch, one of whose circuits is a ground supplied to module at key on has 120 ohms resistance across the contacts as measured between switch at harness connector and this ground at the module.
However, I bypassed the switch with a wire direct to ground from the module and it did not change. I did not have the PICO hooked up though, which I will today because today I am going to measure one last time, this time for the grounds and power supplied to the module while we crank it while it has a source of fuel.
As said, it seems that when the ignitor ignites fuel, there is kickback voltage shutting down the module and it stops firing - I mean the module shuts down as it cant handle the load of driving the . It seems not plausible that the grounds or power is shutting down due to that load but I will check it anyway before I send the module back to make sure that I prove and save the proof (waveform capture) that the module SHOULD be operating.

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fisher Super Nerd Picogroup Offline Deceased Posts: 2,734 Concord California USA Gender:	Re: 1996 Suzuki GSF600S Reply #27 - Aug 2^nd, 2016 at 11:28pm Here is s filtered snapshot during crank and will put psd file in dropsite.
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StitchB

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Re: 1996 Suzuki GSF600S
Reply #28 - Dec 11^th, 2016 at 6:34am

fisher wrote on Jul 28^th, 2016 at 10:10am:

. I want to decide or not the replacement module -a used one - is no good.

Fisher, running into this a lot as of late. Worked on a Kawasaki jet ski not that old, 2002. Cannot buy a new ECM in this case a water cooled and failes do to sea weed in the tube. If one is to be had from Kawasaki dealer is a mere 1,250.00 and the sweet part is they no longer carry it.

On older stuff, buyer beware.

Also on a lot of this stuff right out of the gate I bypass all the saftey switches, clutch, kick stand and nuetral. Differs on some but on my bikes just ground the module on one line and it is now hot. I do not recommend this and using the unit but sometimes is the only way to get home.

As a side note, Doug really likes Hot Chocolate, just saying.

StitchB

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