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Information system thoughts (Read 241 times)
Spence
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Information system thoughts
Jan 8th, 2016 at 7:17pm
 
Here's the quest guys. Our information system is MOD (Mitchel on Demand). Renewal time is coming and the latest subscription sucks in my opinion. We have been using it for over 15 years but in the past two they changed the format for the worst. We have had AllData and Identifix each for a two week trail. Both seem good and much better then MOD. If you have either of these and an opinion either way I would enjoy hearing it. If you use or have a different system we should consider I would like to hear about that as well.

Thanks,

Spence
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Dan W.
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Re: Information system thoughts
Reply #1 - Jan 8th, 2016 at 8:34pm
 
Hi Spence,

In the last approx 20 years now of using service info on computers I have used Mitchell then Alldata, back to Mitchell and now back to Alldata again, Throw in seven years of GM SI in there too. I can say Alldata is my favorite no questions. I base my decision on mainly wiring diagrams because that's what I rely on most. Alldata is pretty straight forward a match to GM SI, I can only assume the same goes for the other oems also since they all have different formats.

I couldn't warm up to Mitchell the second time around because of the redrawn diagrams, seem to lose a lot of important details such as splices and connectors in the circuits. Prior to that I only remember using mitchell books before computers so I never really knew what I was missing.

I prefer alldata for specs and procedures also but I remember Mitchell being adequate in that aspect also. I think alldata covers stuff like interior trim and body info better also, ie... how to get that door panel or window switch bezel off without breaking it Smiley 

Our shop test drove MotoLogic for a couple weeks, it was interesting but personally I would have been afraid to have to use it exclusively. Seemed to be missing some things I could find in alldata. I haven't seen Identifix yet.

I am sure it boils down to personal opinion and what you are used to but having used both extensively I choose alldata.
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crackerclicker
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Re: Information system thoughts
Reply #2 - Jan 8th, 2016 at 10:46pm
 
Hi Spence,

I feel competent enough with either MOD or AllData, but if you want Identifix I strongly encourage you to keep a subscription to one of the other two as well.  ID is good, but not quite finished yet.  I find myself frequently visiting MOD for what I can't find in ID (which for the most part revolves around euro and newer models in the '10-'16 range).
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KarlW
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Re: Information system thoughts
Reply #3 - Jan 9th, 2016 at 3:04am
 
Spence wrote on Jan 8th, 2016 at 7:17pm:
If you have either of these and an opinion either way I would enjoy hearing it


Never had Mitchell.

Been using AllData for years and think its the best other than factory maybe.

Indentifix has become a lot better over the years.
The search function is awesome. Book mark feature and zoom is great.

The best thing about Direct Hit(Identifix) in my opinion is being able to open multiple widows for wire diagrams or what ever on the same screen then scroll & open/close windows your done with and leave the ones you need open.
The confirmed fixes is a nice feature also

There has been info I needed that AllData didn't have and Identifix did.   I'm sure that goes both ways but I know if Identifix doesn't have something. You can request it and they will oblige.


If I had to choose one I think I would have to go with Identifix.  They both look to have factory access
AllData is still the one I go to first(if its not Ford) but it is just because I'm more comfortable using it.
It would be Nice if there was a Car Med duty truck/ Heavy Duty truck and off road all in one Smiley

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Jamey
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Re: Information system thoughts
Reply #4 - Jan 9th, 2016 at 12:26pm
 
Hi Spence, I have All data and Identifix, but I also have Chrysler and GM factory, I have had Mitchell in the past, I didn't like it, so I went back to AD. I have Identifix and I like it, it has most of the OEM's but it is not a stand alone system.... Yet! I feel that with AD and Identifix I am very well covered. Also Identifix will email or fax you anything you need that is not on the site, they have it, it just may not be on line yet and I get a response within about 15-20 minutes.
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Andy_
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Re: Information system thoughts
Reply #5 - Jan 9th, 2016 at 1:13pm
 
Pretty much what the others have said. Identifix is not quite complete. It seems to get better all the time.

To me it still seems like Alldata is laid out a bit neater, but the bookmark function and being able to open multiple things on the same page is nice.

When you need to request info from Identifix they have been pretty quick from my experience.

The last time I checked Identifix was quite a bit cheaper, they have different discounts for different things, I got one for being an AC Delco PSC member.

I don't know if Alldata has changed, but one thing that bothered me was that none of the hyperlinks in their wiring diagrams worked like they would in the OE diagram, but that may have changed.

Really, I think they're both pretty similar and not sure you could go wrong.

-Andy
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jarvissamuel
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Re: Information system thoughts
Reply #6 - Jan 9th, 2016 at 3:38pm
 
Current shop has Identifix and Alldata, the combination of the two is a solid SI. 

A neat thing about AD is in parts/labor it usually lists the OE part number. Additionally, the narrower the search, the more focused the tsb. For example look up a window regulator and if hhere is tsb about it it will list it right there in the same section.

A downside to AD is most shops cheap out and get only a 3 license subscription, and AD does not like the license being unlocked and changed around. So make sur you know how many licenses will be needed. Idfx is very generous with licenses I believe it is around 10 or so.

A downside to Idfx is it is great on new stuff, 1996 and up but it is just not there for the old stuff.  However if Idfx keeps improving like it has MOD and AD will left in the dust.

Also keep in mind the managent part will be different and therr can be huge differences in labor times between MOD and AD.

I have not used it but have heard positive things about real time labor guide. It might be worth checking out as well whileshoppong around.

Good luck either way and do not forget about checking out OE SI, if you have been thinking about doing programing I believe there are some bundles. Sam
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busjockey
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Re: Information system thoughts
Reply #7 - Jan 9th, 2016 at 4:24pm
 
Identifix is my favorite, very easy to get to wiring schematics.  We also have alldata but I don't like how it navigates.  You have to go through a lot of menus to get what you want. Smiley
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richmunch
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Re: Information system thoughts
Reply #8 - Jan 9th, 2016 at 5:37pm
 
I have found that guys like the one they learned on. For me, that was alldata. I had that one first and got very used to getting in and out whatever info I needed. Now I can get whatever info there is pretty quickly on alldata. There are also a couple of different alldata versions. I prefer alldata pro. I think that's what it is called. I had one called S3000 and I couldn't find anything on it.  So I had them switch me back to pro, I actually have both pro and S3000 for some reason. But I never use the s3000. Undecided

I also have a cracked version of Mitchell, I know that may be frowned upon, but whatever, I got it. I never got used to using it. I have tried a bunch of times and just can't get used to it.  I also did a 2 week test drive with identifix. 2 years ago and just this past fall. It works pretty well, I liked the info and I liked the direct hit stuff.

You can sign up for a trial run, I have done it twice but never committed to buying. I just can't get used to it. It's difficult to navigate for me. I hear they keep improving. So I will probably give it another try in a year or so. But for me, alldata is still the best and easiest to use.  Smiley
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Abndanger
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Re: Information system thoughts
Reply #9 - Jan 10th, 2016 at 3:35am
 
Well Spence I will give you my  Smiley here but it add up to a buck I am sure.

First of MOD really sucks. It is not user friendly what's so ever and every change they makes it worse. I physically have never used it but have done a trial runs and it is terrible.

Motologic, it is stronger in the Euro vehicles but still difficult to navigate and there are serious loop holes. I did a month worth of it and cancelled the subscription because of missing or wrong info. Shit like that takes you down a rabbit whole quick.

Now lets talk Alldata. I use it as a quick reference material on basic items.

The Pro's:

They have pretty accurate labor guides.

The instructions for tear down and assembly are pretty good.

General information can be found quickly for basic items.

It is normally user friendly when looking for componets and codes.

Library request is usually pretty good and through.

Cons:

The search engine is ok to say the least. Major searches will reveal what you are looking for, but lacks in a lot of area's.

Wire diagrams are scanned from the OE, but they are not always accurate and are wrong 25% of the time. Especially when dealing with Chrysler, GM and Euro's. Non of the hyper links work on OE diagrams.

Connector locations are not always accurate and can bounce you around in all data.

They do not list all the PIP & PIT for GM products or all the SSM etc on the Fords. I can go on and on about this subject.

There is a lot of descriptors missing when it comes to circuit operation of modules. The newer the vehicle the worse it is and it pisses me off.

They finally have fixed the issue with their wire diagrams when viewing them. What is mean is at first they all would be sides ways and you would have to print out the diagram to read it up right. Now after years of complaining the finally have an auto rotate as a feature.

All in all Alldata is pretty user friendly and as a quick reference I use it a lot.

Now let's talk Identifix.

They are up and coming. Besides people using it for spoon feeding and a golden egg to which to fix vehicles. It really has some strong vantage points.

Cons:

Can be slow at times due to so many users and the back button does not always work the greatest.

Labor guides are not always the greatest and seen far depending on the job.

Pro's:

They have one heck of a search engine. I can type in a connector and it will bring everything up on this connector and everything is right there at my finger tips.

Descriptors are really good and are easier to find than Alldata.

Most hyperlinks works and are very useful.

The wire diagrams are usually 95% right. Have found a few flaws here and there.

When you type in the search engine block an item it will normally populate all the information related to what you are looking for.

They also have colored wire diagrams which you are used to looking at as in MOD.

All in all when it comes to serious service information they are my go to site for diagrams, connectors and componets locations.

Now, both of these providers really compliment each other and I use them hand in hand. There have been times I have thought of canning Alldata, but have not come to this point yet. Many shops in my area have canned them and are sticking with Identifix.

The issue I have with this is the other shops(very reputable shops I might say) call all the time and ask me questions because they are using the spoon feeding side and not their head to learn.

Now, with all this being said. I am an OE site guy as well. There are numerous occasions whereby I have to get more detailed information which you will never find on any of the aftermarket websites. This information is invaluable and takes you a step above when looking for weird shit like it have a tendency to do Grin

When using OE tooling the manufactures have done a lot of improvements and linking of the tooling to the SI is sweet to say the least. These are area's to be explored and exploited in a later thread or conversation.

OE website normally have more information on special messages as well and this needs to be factored into the equation when dealing with vehicle's.

I will give you an example of a rabbit hole just recently occurred at my shop and mind you I was pissed and let Alldata have it with a phone call.

I just looked and they have not fixed it yet after a week. Good support there Angry

2012 Chevy Malibu Eco engine. Look up the fuel pump controls for it on the wire diagrams. Now compare Alldata & Identifix diagrams.

Spence, you probably got more than you bargained for here(my two cent worth), but I know you are a very through individual and take great pride in your work and like to have all the info you can to properly repair & diag the vehicle. Maybe having OE SI is the best way to go. I know it is a lot of $$$ but it is worth it on your major OE's you work on.

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Spence
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Re: Information system thoughts
Reply #10 - Jan 13th, 2016 at 7:38pm
 
Thanks for all the responses! We gave AllData and Identifix both a couple week test drive. As mentioned we have had ShopKey (MOD) for quite some time. We also have subscriptions to some of the OE sites on a monthly time base as needed. I have found that AllData and Identifix both had re printed of the OE's.

I pulled the trigger today and went with Identifix.

Thanks again guys!

Spence
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