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kwrencher Guru Member Picogroup Offline I'm trying to be an Autonerd Posts: 312 Manitoba Manitoba Canada Gender:	Picoscope specs Oct 5^th, 2015 at 12:25pm Hi, wanting to get into labscope diagnostics and unsure of which line of picoscopes is geared towards the automotive trade. It seems autonerdz sells the 4000 series of scopes, but on pico's actual site, they have 6 or so different series and I'm not smart enough yet to know which scope will meet the needs/my expectations. Thanks
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Tom Roberts

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Re: Picoscope specs
Reply #1 - Oct 5^th, 2015 at 1:58pm

Pico has quite a selection of 'Test and Measurement' products.

While it would be 'possible' to use a test and measurement scope for automotive, none of them are as well suited to the purpose as the 4425 (4 channel) and 4225 (two channel) scopes.

The test and measurement models will not operate with the PicoScope automotive software so you do lose some functionality there.

More importantly though is that the modern automotive scopes, starting with the 3423, had thermal fuse protection to prevent damaging ground loops. Now the 4425 has floating inputs and that is even better.

Most of the test and measurement scopes would be instantly damaged by improper hookup. The 4425 scopes are really tough. We deliberately tried to destroy one here with all manner of stupid hookups and were unsuccessful.

In addition, the 4425 now has a 200v input, connect detect, and other hardware features that are automotive specific.

And, of course, getting an Autonerdz custom automotive kit from us is a no brainer. You get a LOT more value in hardware and also the continuing value year after year of our Picogroup resources subscription:

http://www.autonerdz.com/cgi/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1336513824

We introduced PicoScope to the automotive industry on this continent and remain the only PicoScope automotive specialists.

And, we have a Canadian partner to serve you:

http://www.mikejonesauto.com/

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Spence

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Re: Picoscope specs
Reply #2 - Oct 5^th, 2015 at 4:10pm

kwrencher wrote on Oct 5^th, 2015 at 12:25pm:

Hi, wanting to get into labscope diagnostics and unsure of which line of picoscopes is geared towards the automotive trade. It seems autonerdz sells the 4000 series of scopes, but on pico's actual site, they have 6 or so different series and I'm not smart enough yet to know which scope will meet the needs/my expectations. Thanks

I suggest the 4 channel even for starters. You are gonna want and need them if you plan on using this more then a hobby.

From there each kit adds bells and whistles so to speak. Depending on what you are working on, seeing in your shop, maybe turning away or having to spend to much time diagnosing may lead you to which kit would serve you best. If you haven't had much experience using a scope then there may be things you may not even know to consider. Calling Mick and going over it or Tom would be my suggestion.

You can also throw some of your thoughts out here. Most in this group have been where you are at and can help you make an informed decision.

Spence

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busjockey LSD Guide Offline The Diesel Nerd Posts: 3,442 Champaign Illinois USA Gender:	Re: Picoscope specs Reply #3 - Oct 5^th, 2015 at 5:21pm Kwrencher, what type of equipment do you work on?
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kwrencher

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Re: Picoscope specs
Reply #4 - Oct 5^th, 2015 at 7:23pm

The shop that I worked at when I went through my apprenticeship had a Vantage Pro, and it was seldom used, because of that I appreciated all the connector views/diagrams and extra info that s/o provided with the tool. However after watching several videos, namely scanner danner, it's fairly apparent that the software and functionality of the pico is far and wide above others. Also being able to build up your own waveform library is key for the long term. I've just recently opened my own shop and thinking the shop needs a scope.
It's mostly domestic car and light trucks that are in the shop, but we'll see plenty of Asian and some European stuff.

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busjockey LSD Guide Offline The Diesel Nerd Posts: 3,442 Champaign Illinois USA Gender:	Re: Picoscope specs Reply #5 - Oct 5^th, 2015 at 7:42pm Kwrencher, trust me on this, buy a 4 channel scope kit from the Nerdz crew and you won't be sorry. Been a happy customer for 2 years now.
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kwrencher Guru Member Picogroup Offline I'm trying to be an Autonerd Posts: 312 Manitoba Manitoba Canada Gender:	Re: Picoscope specs Reply #6 - Oct 8^th, 2015 at 6:02pm How often do most guys have more than 2 channels in use at a time?
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Spence LSD Guide Picogroup Offline Posts: 8,025 Jeffersonville Pennsylvania USA Gender:	Re: Picoscope specs Reply #7 - Oct 8^th, 2015 at 6:14pm kwrencher wrote on Oct 8^th, 2015 at 6:02pm: How often do most guys have more than 2 channels in use at a time? I'd bet 75% or more for me.
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Re: Picoscope specs
Reply #8 - Oct 8^th, 2015 at 6:37pm

kwrencher wrote on Oct 8^th, 2015 at 6:02pm:

How often do most guys have more than 2 channels in use at a time?

I would say most people use 3 channels over 2
let's take cam crank and a sync

power ground and current

See were this is going?

Most components that need to be checked will need 3 channels to see the whole picture in one screen shot, so much easier than having one missing.

You will be wishing you had taken our advice if you go with 2 channels only.

Drop in at http://mikejonesauto.com/ and contact me from there. Wink

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Mick

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Re: Picoscope specs
Reply #9 - Oct 8^th, 2015 at 10:26pm

kwrencher wrote on Oct 8^th, 2015 at 6:02pm:

How often do most guys have more than 2 channels in use at a time?

I would rarely use only two channels.

I would take Mick's advise most seriously.

Be generous to yourself in this purchase and you will not suffer buyers regret.

I might also add that if you become a member of the Autonerdz Pico Group you will be presented with a host of captures that use the full spectrum of the capacities of the Picoscope 4 channel.

You will want to use these examples in your own work.

DO NOT CUT YOURSELF SHORT !

If you one day use only two channels you will not regret your purchase, if you only have two and you need three or more, then you will have great regret.

Take Mick's advice.

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busjockey LSD Guide Offline The Diesel Nerd Posts: 3,442 Champaign Illinois USA Gender:	Re: Picoscope specs Reply #10 - Oct 9^th, 2015 at 9:48am 4 channels most of the time for me, .
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Spence LSD Guide Picogroup Offline Posts: 8,025 Jeffersonville Pennsylvania USA Gender:	Re: Picoscope specs Reply #11 - Oct 9^th, 2015 at 11:00am busjockey wrote on Oct 9^th, 2015 at 9:48am: 4 channels most of the time for me, . Me too and wishing I had a couple more.
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KarlW

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Re: Picoscope specs
Reply #12 - Oct 9^th, 2015 at 1:23pm

Spence wrote on Oct 9^th, 2015 at 11:00am:

Me too and wishing I had a couple more.

Spence,

were all Pico scope drug addicts Cheesy

why don't you get a Pico 8 channel from Tom?

I find This thing Kicks ass dude. Specially on Diesel strokes!!

I run 20:1 Attenuators all the time on 6 channels and 2 amp clamp channels.

The only down fall I find is the leads tangling up.

I have a custom set of IDS VMM leads converted to BNC almost complete that make set up a dream that takes care of that problem. I made a set for the 4423 a while back for road tests and the other set is just about done.

I can't believe AN don't sell more 8 bangers to be honest.

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Ward Zintel

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Re: Picoscope specs
Reply #13 - Oct 9^th, 2015 at 5:52pm

Good day KWrencher!
Very rarely do I used 2 channels or less, it's usually 3 or all 4. Every so often the heritage vantage is involved also, watching a 5V ref or something easy like that.
The 4 channel is not any more "complicated" to operate than the 2 channel. If budget issues are involved get a 4 channel kit with Autonerdz support
(the 4425 "standard kit"). Over time you can add the other bits as funds allow.
On this site and others you will see people selling a 2 channel PICO to buy a 4 channel, to date I have never seen a person selling a 4 channel to buy a 2 channel!
The onboard data base my vantage had never got used even when it was current. If I'm trouble shooting I already have a wiring diagram up long before the scope comes out, so I already have that info. If I know that the problem revolves around a certain part, a MAP sensor for example, I don't need to know which pin is signal, I'm going to scope 'em all. One should be +5 or8 V ref, one should be ground, very close to 0V and clean - the last one will be signal! Bippity Boppity Boop! (and I still got a channel to spare, just in case).
Allow me to stress one last time - make sure you buy a kit with Autonerdz support! Even on iATN people post from time to time that the support after sale is as valuable as the scope itself - and the scope is no slouch!
You're in Manitoba (how 'bout them Bombers) so Mick would be the guy you talk to - he's a good guy - I bought my first look, WPS500, and can test box through him. VERY good service from both Mick and Tom over the years.
-Ward-

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kwrencher

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Re: Picoscope specs
Reply #14 - Oct 9^th, 2015 at 7:11pm

Ward Zintel wrote on Oct 9^th, 2015 at 5:52pm:

You're in Manitoba (how 'bout them Bombers)

Let's not even get started on the Bombers! Although last I checked I think they're doing better than your RR's Grin

Saskabush hey? My inlaws are from there, curious as to what shop you're at. I'm pretty sure I will get the 4 channel, just need to budget for it. I've just opened up shop about 6 months ago and this piece of equipment was kind of left on the backburner, but starting to run into issues where I would like to graph. Anybody upgraded to Windoze 10 yet? Wondering how the software works on it. Also does USB 3 make a difference? Just wondering if I should be looking at an different laptop with an older OS

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Ward Zintel Super Nerd Picogroup Offline Posts: 632 Saskatoon Saskatchewan Canada Gender:	Re: Picoscope specs Reply #15 - Oct 9^th, 2015 at 8:08pm EVERYBODY is doin' better than our 'Riders! I have an HP laptop at work, and a Toshiba laptop at home. Both are touch screen and came with windows 8.nuthin', both have been updated to 8.1 and run my PICO and AutoEnginuity scan tool with no issues at all. -Ward-
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fisher

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Re: Picoscope specs
Reply #16 - Oct 9^th, 2015 at 8:45pm

I upgraded to windows 10. Although it runs Pico no problem it was a mistake. After I did I went to Dell's website to look for driver upgrades and do maintenance and found out that Dell doesn't support Windows 10 on this Dell XT2 XFR.
So I already had bought a new hard drive for it with bigger capacity and one day soon am going to install it and reinstall Windows 7 with it.
So check into that, the manufacturer of your laptop or desktop may not support 10.
Windows 10 works well with PICO.

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Tom Roberts

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Re: Picoscope specs
Reply #17 - Oct 10^th, 2015 at 7:59am

kwrencher wrote on Oct 9^th, 2015 at 7:11pm:

Also does USB 3 make a difference?

Not at this time. However, the Pico team is always improving the software adding new features and capability so that might change.

For example, some time ago, one of the updates increased the power of the 4423 scopes by a factor of ten. So everyone got another free software update that made their scope ten times more powerful. Shocked

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Spence LSD Guide Picogroup Offline Posts: 8,025 Jeffersonville Pennsylvania USA Gender:	Re: Picoscope specs Reply #18 - Oct 10^th, 2015 at 12:11pm Ward Zintel wrote on Oct 9^th, 2015 at 8:08pm: EVERYBODY is doin' better than our 'Riders! Huh...
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jarvissamuel Super Nerd Picogroup Offline I love YaBB 1G - SP1! Posts: 1,154 Denver Colorado Colorado USA	Re: Picoscope specs Reply #19 - Oct 10^th, 2015 at 4:33pm Back in the day a 2 channel was all Pico offered (212's), Pico has made huge improvents. The four ch is the way to go. It is easier to have extra channels and not use them, then to need more and not have them. Sam
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Ward Zintel

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Re: Picoscope specs
Reply #20 - Oct 10^th, 2015 at 5:00pm

Hello Spence!
I'm referring to the Saskatchewan Roughriders, a Canadian Football League team, and the only professional team in Saskatchewan. On Friday they lost to the Hamilton Tigercats, and are now officially outta the play offs this year.
I will be a 'Bombers fan post season this year, unless they don't make the play offs either.
-Ward-

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Spence

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Re: Picoscope specs
Reply #21 - Oct 11^th, 2015 at 3:50am

Ward Zintel wrote on Oct 10^th, 2015 at 5:00pm:

Hello Spence!
I'm referring to the Saskatchewan Roughriders, a Canadian Football League team, and the only professional team in Saskatchewan. On Friday they lost to the Hamilton Tigercats, and are now officially outta the play offs this year.
I will be a 'Bombers fan post season this year, unless they don't make the play offs either.
-Ward-

I see now...

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Re: Picoscope specs
Reply #22 - Oct 12^th, 2015 at 7:09pm

KarlW wrote on Oct 9^th, 2015 at 1:23pm:

Spence wrote on Oct 9^th, 2015 at 11:00am:

Me too and wishing I had a couple more.

Spence,

were all Pico scope drug addicts Cheesy

why don't you get a Pico 8 channel from Tom?

I find This thing Kicks ass dude. Specially on Diesel strokes!!

I run 20:1 Attenuators all the time on 6 channels and 2 amp clamp channels.

The only down fall I find is the leads tangling up.

I have a custom set of IDS VMM leads converted to BNC almost complete that make set up a dream that takes care of that problem. I made a set for the 4423 a while back for road tests and the other set is just about done.

I can't believe AN don't sell more 8 bangers to be honest.

I have thought about this. You are correct, we are scope junkies! Smiley

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