Autonerdz forums

Hi guys,

I currently reside here in Manila, Philippines and have lived here for most of my life. I am a US citizen and I’ve been running my own shop here for about 3 years now (3 techs, 5 bay garage, I’m  the foreman/manager/owner), and it hasn’t been that great business-wise. I’ve been working on cars for the last 8 years, and have a lot of experience with Honda and Toyota. I do a lot of mechanical work and driveability (Quite new at it, I’m hard at work improving on it). Long story short, my wife and I have decided that it would be better to move to the states in hope for more stability, and better quality of life (grass is always greener on the other side hehe). For starters, we plan on living with my dad in Vegas just to get settled in, get a job, and then when things are stable, we move out (to where, we don’t know yet).

I’m hoping to continue being a technician in the states. Admittedly I have zero experience working in the states and have no idea what sort of culture exists in the auto repair industry and what the pay is like. I’m expecting the worst, but at the same time I’m hoping to be able to provide for my wife and future children.

I wanted to seek your expert opinions and input about my hopeful career and how to make it in the industry as a technician and perhaps points against it.

1)Should I start of at the dealership or an independent garage?
2) How is life working flat rate?
3) Can I provide enough for my family in this career?
4) Any other things to consider that I may have overlooked?
5) Should I consider another career instead of continuing being a technician?

I look forward to hearing from everyone on here. Thanks, guys!


Matt

PS: Not sure if this topic is allowed on Autonerdz.

Matt,

The 5 questions you have asked in your post are the same 5 questions that most techs ask themselves every day.

There are no easy answers.  If you ask 100 techs you will get 100 different opinions.

The best I can do is simply offer my own opinions to you.


1) I prefer independent garages.  I like working on different types of vehicles, rather than one line.  Tooling is sometimes an issue at indy garages but there is never a dull day.

2)I don't work on flat rate.  I get paid hourly and prefer it that way.  This is another reason I don't want to work in a dealer, because practically all dealers are flat rate.  When I did work flat rate, it was GREAT on weeks where there were plenty of cars and everything went smooth.  On weeks where there were problem cars or slow days, it was terrible.  That's the nature of life on flat rate.  Whether or not flat rate is good also depends on what kind of jobs your shop is giving you and how good the service writer is at making sure to get all the labor hours that he should for a job.  You can make good money on flat rate EASILY if you are doing brake jobs, ball joints, and water pumps all the time.  If you get stuck with all the diagnostics, it's a lot tougher to turn out big hours, especially if the shop doesn't charge appropriately for diagnostics.

3) There are lots of guys providing for their families in this business.  Some better than others.  Where you are going to be living/working will have a big impact on what kind of life you can provide for your family.  Rural areas are cheaper to live in, but pay rates are also lower.  Cities have better pay usually, but higher cost of living as well.  You will have to try and find a balance that works for you.

4) Location, location, location ...  How techs work and survive in one state/city is going to be very different from how techs work and survive in another.  Once you have some ideas on locations, try to talk to techs in that area and find out what sort of pay/benefits they are getting, what their rent/mortgage costs, local taxes, etc.  I can't stress enough how much things vary from one place to another.  In some places, techs make 6 figures easily.  In others, the best of techs struggle to make 35k a year.

5)  That's up to you.  I can say that there are other careers that will pay as well or better with less stress and physical wear and tear.  Many of them may require a degree.  Someone who is mechanically inclined and has a 2 year degree from a community college has any number of options.  For example, I hear that many factories have repair techs for equipment that get paid quite well.

But you have to ask yourself if you would be happy without the daily pressure and challenge of the modern automobile ...

Personally, although I often talk/dream of leaving this industry ... I just don't know if I would feel satisfied without the constant technical challenges of complex modern cars staring me in the face every day

How often do you guys encounter driveability problems and the like in your workplace? Back here in Manila, it's quite rare and it's mostly brake and suspension work becausw of the poor road conditions and extreme traffic.

Matthew R. wrote on May 13^th, 2015 at 9:13pm:


Darren, I would have to echo Derreck.

When it comes to shops. Either the owners are living in the past or they are living in the future is what I see.

In my area we have about 200 repair shops. Everyone does pretty much everything, but some are specialized.

My goal is to try and stick strictly to driveability and mobile programming. I don't like to get my hands dirty to much anymore and I stay busy with shops and customer being referred to me

Everyday I learn something new. It is an ever changing technology and needs to be embraced

To find a good mechanical tech who takes pride in his work and does a great job is hard to find.

Derreck wrote on May 14^th, 2015 at 9:16am:


Like I have said Derreck. I would hire you if you want to work up here in Michigan

We could make a killing on some diag and mobile work

There are quite a lot of differences there, and I think they are good things. Well, I'm really looking forward to starting anew over there.. and definitely looking forward to meeting some fellow Nerdz!

"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take."

Matthew,

Sounds like you have made your mind up to come to the states. AWESOME!!!

I know for a fact there are a shortage of tech here in West Michigan. We have a lot of good quality techs here. Good one's are taken care of pretty well as not to loose them and the not so good one's bounce around.

Your welcome to come up here. The cold would be a major factor in the Winter I am sure for you

Do some research as Derreck has suggested on cost of living and wages before committing to anything.

Derreck wrote on May 14^th, 2015 at 6:05pm:



What about California, Derreck?
No rust, no snow. No problems!

JNelson wrote on May 15^th, 2015 at 5:56am:


Here's a good summation of my thoughts on California:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neGdoqsuiN8



You guys have the best weather and awesome views ... sure.  Everything else there is terrible



Abndanger wrote on May 15^th, 2015 at 7:03am:



+1 for Michingan

Also, the gun laws are pretty relaxed up there, right?  Here in Ky, gun are basically non-existent.   Which is the way I like it

Abndanger wrote on May 15^th, 2015 at 7:03am:


I was just trying to get in line second, and woo him with the wonders? of California

We will not be in the ocean for at least a couple more weeks...
And we do too have deer. you can't shoot them with a gun, but you are more than welcome to hit then with your truck.
Actually I have no idea on deer hunting, I'm pretty sure there is a season for deer.
Ok, Google says you get a month in the fall.

Also, it's not all bad. We do have Yosemite, the ocean, mountains, fishing, and yes lots of douchebags and taxes.

Not too many years back, I was in the same boat as you. The difference is that I've actually worked in the US, and had current ASE Master and L1 certs (Exp last Dec...)

First thing I'm going to suggest is to head over to iATN, and do some reading in the Shop Management and Industry Issues forums. If you're a member, you can search the archives. There're miles of pro/con threads discussing flat-rate, dealer vs. independent, and on and on.

I actually flew to the US several times, and interviewed at quite a few places, talked to quite a few people, and did an unbelievable amount of research on the entire what's what. The following is my opinion, and paints with a broad brush, but still paints a pretty accurate picture for someone looking from the outside-in.


Matthew R. wrote on May 13^th, 2015 at 1:09am:


Indy. Of course there are good dealers, but most of the places just use and chew up techs. Flat rate, and over staffed, so it's tech vs. tech. Remembering the broad brush I talked about, most people who have left the dealer, and now work indy, do not miss the dealer. They miss factory tooling if the indy doesn't use it, but overall, they don't have much nice to say about it. Of all the places I interviewed, the dealers were all a joke. One Toyota offered $20 per hour starting, but was mostly maintenance, and looked over-staffed. One Chevy (same company) offered $27, but was mostly warranty, and overstaffed Meaning you're getting $27 per hour for the 3 hours of work you can scrounge). You can read about this particular set of problems on iATN. Either way was a joke, as I can almost always crush "book time" and they're wanting to pay less than 25% of the door rate, and for work they don't have? LOL.   

I interviewed with a few indies which were just advertising, and was highly disappointed. Then I narrowed that down to places that looked like they had their stuff together. Specialization, hourly with bonus pay plan, etc. These turned into real interviews vs. just looking to say yes to anyone off the street. Money and benefits blew any dealer, and the crappy indies out of the water. Most of these places want techs with at least an ASE master cert. They take pride in their business, and want their techs to do the same. Stay out of the corporate chain stores.


Matthew R. wrote on May 13^th, 2015 at 1:09am:


Almost everyone hates it in public discussion. It seems to have been good years ago, but now it's used to put losses from bad management on the mechanic. Many of the high-end indy's pay hourly, or have some kind of pay plan with hourly and performance bonus. There are reams written about the ills of flat-rate, while almost no one has anything bad to say about hourly. It's possible you could luck into something good, but it's highly doubtful. At first, I thought that would be a great system, and I could make a fortune! Then I dug. And dug some more... No effing way would I subject myself to that. The worst thing I ever read about hourly, in a FR discussion, was: "I don't make quite as much, but my life is much better."

Matthew R. wrote on May 13^th, 2015 at 1:09am:



Sure. Find a good shop with lots of work, and a good pay plan. Remember that the average pay for a tech in the US is $39K. You will have a big tool expense paid out of that, health insurance will be ridiculous for anything that actually helps you, and on and on. Food is expensive. Taxes are expensive... I was under the assumption that the cost of living in the US would be substantially lower than where I am in Japan. Not in SW Michigan, it's not.


Matthew R. wrote on May 13^th, 2015 at 1:09am:


Specialize. Find a shop that specializes in something. Like Toyota, Nissan, Honda, for instance. If you work in an "all makes and models" shop, you're not going to like it because they won't be tooled for what you're doing. See what tools they have. How is their work load vs. techs. If they're paying hourly, that shouldn't be an issue, as they're probably hiring because they actually need someone, and not just hiring to fill a four-hour labor hole. Once again, loads of reading about this on iATN. One huge bonus you'll find in a proper shop, is access to real service info! A lot of mechanic that work overseas are shit-hot at fixing cars because they have to be thinkers. We don't have access to factory diagnostic tools, and info. If you were good at finding and fixing problems before, wait until you have access to factory SI, tools, TSB's and so on. If you work in a crappy indy shop with nothing more than an old Snap-on scan tool and Alldata... It still might be better than where you're coming from :-0 At least the info applies to the car you're working on. US techs really don't know how good they have it compared to pretty much the rest of the world.

Matthew R. wrote on May 13^th, 2015 at 1:09am:


Maybe, but remember that most skilled trades will require some kind of license.

In the end, it just wasn't worth it to make the move. I don't know what your situation is in the PI, of course. I suggest taking some time to really get a whiff of that grass on the other side of the fence. I was in the same boat, and I thank my lucky stars that I took the time to check it all out. Turned out I was just tired of the grass on my side. Take a trip, and talk to people, in person and on the boards.

Many of the expat's I know here have a retirement plan that includes settling in the PI 

Just do a lot of digging before you jump. It's not for everyone, and the jump back will be twice as painful.

Oh yea, and if you haven't done the paperwork for your wife...get ready for that mess, and be ready to pay, and pay, and it will probably take close to a year. Something I found is that it's easier for me to pick up my whole family and immigrate to Australia or Canada than it is for me to get the visa for my wife, who's been married to an American for 25 years, and has three American children... Go figure    You may need to already have a job before they'll even let her in...

Matt H wrote on May 17^th, 2015 at 5:51pm:


Thanks for the advice! Yes, I am a member on iATN, I’ll do some digging.


Matt H wrote on May 17^th, 2015 at 5:51pm:


I guess with the experience I have from here, it would be narrowed down to specialization on Japanese makes. I was planning on getting my ASE certs when I get there. I still have to file my work experience with ASE. What’s the average salary a tech on hourly pay would receive?

Matt H wrote on May 17^th, 2015 at 5:51pm:


Based on everyone else’s inputs and what I’ve read on the internet, hourly does seem to be a lot better. I don’t like the idea of going hungry or taking the hit when the shop isn’t profitable.

Matt H wrote on May 17^th, 2015 at 5:51pm:


I think this is where most people would say that “the grass is always greener on the other side”. I was talking to a good friend of mine, and we were comparing notes since he plans on moving to Australia. No country has everything you want, or has all the solutions that you seek that your current country of residency can’t get a grip on. From what I've researched on and comparing it to my current situation, it does seem a lot better to move.


Matt H wrote on May 17^th, 2015 at 5:51pm:


I couldn’t agree more! When I first opened shop here it was crazy trying to find good service information for the cars we service (that was on top of training my techs). Thankfully, I have gotten lucky with Mitchell and Alldata (DIY versions, I just pay per car. So far this has worked very well for me) as some of the critical components are very similar, if not the same. When it comes to wiring diagrams, they are never 100% the same. On some, the color sequencing is way off, the module pinouts will be completely different, and complete lack of emissions control on some local units here. But it does help give a good idea on how the system works which speeds up diagnosis. TSB’s however are a completely different story, thankfully I haven’t encountered a vehicle that’s had a TSB on something I was chasing my tail on.

Yeah, guys in the states have got it a lot easier when it comes to resources. In the PI you have to get real creative most of the time. I admire the creativity, but when it comes to applying it on a repair or making a component not designed for that particular vehicle work, that’s when I start pulling my hair out. I’ve been on the receiving end of some bad solutions to problems… like putting RTV on the outside of a camshaft seal to stop an oil leak. Or… removing all 4 ABS sensors plus the ABS light bulb on the gauge cluster to solve an ABS problem.




Matt H wrote on May 17^th, 2015 at 5:51pm:


I have a long term plan of finishing my Mechanical Engineering degree. But life happens, and when we have kids, I'm pretty sure I might be saying something else.

Matt H wrote on May 17^th, 2015 at 5:51pm:


Yeah, it's really difficult right now in the PI for me. When the time comes to move, our plan is for me to go ahead of my wife, then she will follow after a few months. It'll be a lot easier for me to get my head down and work hard, so that when she arrives (if the paperwork is ok), things will be more or less stable.

Matt H wrote on May 17^th, 2015 at 5:51pm:


I don't blame them at all. The PI is a beautiful country with decent weather. I plan on retiring here when my time comes to hang my hat.


Matt H wrote on May 17^th, 2015 at 5:51pm:


I definitely will do a lot more digging before jumping ship. Yeah, jumping back immediately would not only be painful but expensive.

Matt H wrote on May 17^th, 2015 at 5:51pm:


This is something we are trying to work out right now. I'm hoping for the best!

Matt H wrote on May 17^th, 2015 at 5:51pm:


I have a complete metric set of tools. The brand I got here is TOPTUL, apparently it's a quality Taiwan brand. Do you have experience with this brand? I believe it's still a far cry from Snap-on, so far I've broken a 19mm 1/2" socket, and a impact screwdriver bit.  I'm thinking of shipping out this set rather than buying a whole new set over in the states. I have to do some research though about shipping cost.

Matt H wrote on May 18^th, 2015 at 3:17am:


Right now, I'm planning on just settling in with my dad's family in the mean time while I adapt to the new life in the states. After a year or two, I definitely would like to see what is out there. I wouldn't mind relocating if the job, package, and training are very good.

Matt H wrote on May 18^th, 2015 at 3:17am:


I think this is key to any career. A lot of young guys play the short game and fail to put things in perspective for the long term. I was guilty of that too a few years ago, and I've been trying to hammer that into my young techs at my shop for some time. Hardheadedness isn't lacking at all.

Matt H wrote on May 18^th, 2015 at 3:17am:


Yup, I'm not doubting a complete life change. Neither is this the first time I've planned on moving to the states. Only this time, it's really happening. Uprooting and leaving an old life behind is daunting, but exciting as well.

Thank you for extending your help. I will keep in touch for sure

Matt H wrote on May 18^th, 2015 at 3:17am:


HOLY CRAP! What a car! I've always loved the sound of the RB engines. Did you slap on the entire underchassis and drivetrain of the Skyline (R34?) onto the Cefiro?

Quote:
that is what i do for work. yes it is true on the 6.0L and 6.4L ford engines. diesels are not what they used to be. they are a joke nowadays with the emission regulations. "i make my living on oem engineering blunders" was directed at working on diesels in pickup trucks. talk about job security!

StitchB wrote on May 24^th, 2015 at 5:30am:


Yup, I am Filipino.