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autosparky

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Been naughty
May 8^th, 2015 at 11:51pm

Been having an affair with another scope.

I was on a training course and had a chance to play with a TiePie scope alongside my Pico.
Can't comment as I'm not an expert after 2 days use but it's got some good features

1)built in brand specific testing with test and wf
2)ability to write on screen notes
3)best of all math channels like ours but live as it's recording a trace
4)ohm meter
5)wiring diagrams

check out what the other guys are doing, e.g. with acceleration sensors

http://www.tiepie-automotive.com/en/Articles/Diagnostics/VW_Golf4_accelerates_wi...

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crackerclicker Super Nerd Picogroup Offline Elevation 834 ft Posts: 2,361 Watertown Wisconsin USA Gender:	Re: Been naughty Reply #1 - May 9^th, 2015 at 1:50pm autosparky wrote on May 8^th, 2015 at 11:51pm: Been having an affair with another scope. Competition is a healthy thing. I recall an IATN post by Pico's Mr. Tong about their technological back and forth with TiePie. Seems to me this is how we consumers get better products.
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Logic

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Re: Been naughty
Reply #2 - May 10^th, 2015 at 12:55am

autosparky wrote on May 8^th, 2015 at 11:51pm:

Been having an affair with another scope.

I was on a training course and had a chance to play with a TiePie scope alongside my Pico.
Can't comment as I'm not an expert after 2 days use but it's got some good features

1)built in brand specific testing with test and wf
2)ability to write on screen notes
3)best of all math channels like ours but live as it's recording a trace
4)ohm meter
5)wiring diagrams

check out what the other guys are doing, e.g. with acceleration sensors

http://www.tiepie-automotive.com/en/Articles/Diagnostics/VW_Golf4_accelerates_wi...

I use maths channels live with Pico, it is part of my non mechatronics automatic transmission analysis.

I would like to know more about their diesel injector flow rate tester, Tom you may also find that interesting commercially.

Vector have just added video to their CAN capturing software so that you can have a live record synchronized to the time line, another option for Pico

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busjockey LSD Guide Offline The Diesel Nerd Posts: 3,442 Champaign Illinois USA Gender:	Re: Been naughty Reply #3 - May 10^th, 2015 at 11:17am Ok so when is Pico going to make their own Diesel return flow tester? I'm going to get a fitting so I can look at return pressure on the wps 500 but flow? That would be awesome! Pico needs to get to work .
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Spence LSD Guide Picogroup Offline Posts: 8,025 Jeffersonville Pennsylvania USA Gender:	Re: Been naughty Reply #4 - May 10^th, 2015 at 6:28pm Logic wrote on May 10^th, 2015 at 12:55am: I would like to know more about their diesel injector flow rate tester, Tom you may also find that interesting commercially. Agreed. I would be interested in this as well.
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busjockey LSD Guide Offline The Diesel Nerd Posts: 3,442 Champaign Illinois USA Gender:	Re: Been naughty Reply #5 - May 10^th, 2015 at 6:46pm x3
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autosparky Super Nerd Picogroup Offline blind worker Posts: 2,537 Porirua New Zealand Gender:	Re: Been naughty Reply #6 - May 11^th, 2015 at 1:18am Logic wrote on May 10^th, 2015 at 12:55am: I use maths channels live with Pico, it is part of my non mechatronics automatic transmission analysis. My laptop are just too slow for that, but fixing that shortly with new machine
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autosparky Super Nerd Picogroup Offline blind worker Posts: 2,537 Porirua New Zealand Gender:	Re: Been naughty Reply #7 - May 11^th, 2015 at 1:24am Logic how are you doing this? I'm using my home PC on demo mode and maths only works after the screen has drawn a full screen or you stop capture. The Tiepie was calculating maths live
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Logic LSD Guide Picogroup Offline Posts: 4,147 Bentleigh Victoria Australia	Re: Been naughty Reply #8 - May 11^th, 2015 at 4:23am See this
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autosparky Super Nerd Picogroup Offline blind worker Posts: 2,537 Porirua New Zealand Gender:	Re: Been naughty Reply #9 - May 11^th, 2015 at 11:51pm Ok I see what your doing, but why do you need to know gear ratios? How do you factor in lock-up, not sure what box you got and when lock-up comes into play? When I said live maths channel, I mean the calculations are happening at the same time the trace is travelling across the screen
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Logic

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Re: Been naughty
Reply #10 - May 12^th, 2015 at 1:35am

I do this live

In evaluating the performance of a transmission my maths channel can only be equal to the ratio if the transmission is operating correctly.
shift quality can also be seen this way.

This has nothing to do with torque converter or lockup as that occurs between the engine and the transmission input shaft.

Clearly you have just defined a torque converter lock up test have you not.

The example that I posted shows a faulty transmission that would fault during gear change.

In evaluating a transmission I need to know the speed sensor quality is good, the ratios are maintained in line with the published gear ratios.

The ratio during gear change needs to maintain the correct ratio without slip or flare.

If you need further qualification please advise.

.

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busjockey LSD Guide Offline The Diesel Nerd Posts: 3,442 Champaign Illinois USA Gender:	Re: Been naughty Reply #11 - May 12^th, 2015 at 10:00am Logic wrote on May 12^th, 2015 at 1:35am: In evaluating the performance of a transmission my maths channel can only be equal to the ratio if the transmission is operating correctly. shift quality can also be seen this way How do you set this Math Channel up Logic to see it in real time? Awesome idea by the way.
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crackerclicker

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Re: Been naughty
Reply #12 - May 12^th, 2015 at 3:58pm

autosparky wrote on May 11^th, 2015 at 11:51pm:

but why do you need to know gear ratios?

By dividing the input speed by the output speed you get the gear ratio. This helps to identify slipping components when compared to the specs of the trans in question. Many people do it with a graphing scan tool, but the scope can be much more accurate.

Logic wrote on May 12^th, 2015 at 1:35am:

If you need further qualification please advise.

I normally use a scan tool, so I'm drawing a blank as to why you multiplied by 2 at the beginning of the formula. Could you upload that file?

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busjockey LSD Guide Offline The Diesel Nerd Posts: 3,442 Champaign Illinois USA Gender:	Re: Been naughty Reply #13 - May 12^th, 2015 at 5:19pm Yes Ian I'd like to see the file too please and with a explanation behind your thought process on this.
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jwalkn

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Re: Been naughty
Reply #14 - May 12^th, 2015 at 5:26pm

I really like this Ian. These are the kinds of test I really need to learn more about setting up.

My problem is I'm trying to get the company I work for to buy more Pico scopes but the roadblock is they are afraid it's to complicated for most techs to understand. They are looking only at the diagnostics

Test like this can be set up as a preventative and or a predicative maintenance test. This type of maintenance is something I can sell to my company.

Smiley

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Logic

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Re: Been naughty
Reply #15 - May 12^th, 2015 at 6:56pm

I simply set up my frequency channels on the desired channels.

You will see that I have frequency lines too but these are not really needed, equally you do not need to scale in the formula as I have done, you can do that in the standard scaling to get obvious resolution..

I think I read a post by Tom that the frequency formula can now have the form "freq(A)" as opposed to "Freq(A-2)", Tom will need to confirm this if he will kindly do.

Your idea of torque converter implication is a food one, you simply need to thake the crankshaft frequency converted to rpm and divide that bty the input shaft frequency in much the same way as I have done with the input and output frequencies of the transmission itself.

Naturally to can simply add this to the example capture and run it all together.

The problem that I now have with BMW's that are fitted with mechatronics is that I cannot probe the sensors as it is all inside the mechatronics unit.

The signals are transmitted on the CAN as a CAN message.

Thus my previously published desire to be able to define the bytes of a CAN message and display them in the Picoscope window.

We can already decode the CAN bus, we need to be able to define the bytes within that CAN message that represent a signal and show them in the Picoscope window.

I have posted the file as an attachment so that you may load it up.

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BMW_3_Series_2003_Petrol_AutotransFault_Frequenies_short.psdata (623 KB | )

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haydenw

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Re: Been naughty
Reply #16 - May 12^th, 2015 at 10:01pm

autosparky wrote on May 8^th, 2015 at 11:51pm:

Been having an affair with another scope.

I was on a training course and had a chance to play with a TiePie scope alongside my Pico.
Can't comment as I'm not an expert after 2 days use but it's got some good features

1)built in brand specific testing with test and wf
2)ability to write on screen notes
3)best of all math channels like ours but live as it's recording a trace
4)ohm meter
5)wiring diagrams

check out what the other guys are doing, e.g. with acceleration sensors

http://www.tiepie-automotive.com/en/Articles/Diagnostics/VW_Golf4_accelerates_wi...

Is this on one of Herbert's Course's from AECS?

I quite like the TiePie product once you have been shown how to use it but have found it a tad difficult at first if not using the ATIS software.

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Tom Roberts

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Re: Been naughty
Reply #17 - May 13^th, 2015 at 8:44am

Logic wrote on May 12^th, 2015 at 6:56pm:

the frequency formula can now have the form "freq(A)" as opposed to "Freq(A-2)", Tom will need to confirm this if he will kindly do.

That is correct. Signals that do not cross zero no longer need the modifier to move the frequency counter threshold.

Not sure in what build that change was made. We were never informed and discovered it quite by accident when trying to break a frequency math channel.

Been a while now though...

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autosparky Super Nerd Picogroup Offline blind worker Posts: 2,537 Porirua New Zealand Gender:	Re: Been naughty Reply #18 - May 13^th, 2015 at 11:25pm haydenw wrote on May 12^th, 2015 at 10:01pm: Is this on one of Herbert's Course's from AECS? yup
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