Autonerdz forums

Hi all,

is it still possible to complete an Automotive Apprenticeship in the USA?

I remember Tom saying that the unions pretty much put an end to the idea some time ago, but is it still possible to gain trade qualifications in our field?

In Australia we complete a 3 1/2 year apprenticeship which includes going to trade school for three blocks of two weeks during the first three years.
A training record book is issued at the beginning of the trade studies and both the lecturer and employer sign off on each subject as the apprentice has completed the subject at trade school then shown he or she can complete the task in practice in the work place.

The apprentice is granted trade papers when signed off as competent by the employer at the end of the term.
Additional time can be added (rarely done) to the apprenticeship term if the apprentice is deemed incompetent in some areas.

Thanks for this Board too Tom 

I wish we could figure out a way to bring back apprenticeships, I think it would be a good thing.  I think up and coming techs would be more prepared for the job, plus you gain relationships in the process with future employers.  Not that Auto and Diesel Programs don't do something like this, but unfortunately the work experience sessions are not that long, maybe a month or two tops, that's from my experience anyway when I went to school.  And the kicker is some shops, not all them, sometimes expect a fresh new tech to make time on flat rate hours.  I have never worked flat rate so I guess I can't give a good opinion if a new Tech fresh out of School could make time in one year.  However I think the odds are stacked against you if you don't have a good support system from the Service Adviser to the experienced Techs helping the newbie in his development.  What is everybody else's experience in this matter?  It just seems to me that the flat rate system is basically set up for only caring about yourself.  Not that you shouldn't, everybody needs to make a living, but what about teamwork?  Wouldn't it make better business sense to have your employees pool their resources together for the benefit of not only themselves but also the employer?  I would think this would not only boost morale but also increase profit because in this process you are making all the techs in their shop more competent.  Sorry if that got a little off the subject, but unfortunately when this subject is brought up the next thing that is discussed is flat rate.  How can you get a experienced Tech to help the newbie if he is on flat rate?  Most of the time they will not want to help because they will lose money and that is understandable.  Maybe if employers paid the Techs hourly to train so many hours in the day, the Techs would be more open to helping the young ones out.  I guess I was fortunate.  I started hourly and I still get paid hourly, and I have had tons of support from the older Techs all these years in my development and I am thankful for that.  What is everybody else's  thoughts?

Brad H wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 1:52am:



I respectfully disagree, Brad.

I believe that the increasing complexity of the cars, and the increasing accuracy of on-board monitors will result in a reduction of the number of skilled technicians needed.

In the future, we will see less and less technicians who need to troubleshoot problems.  We will also need less parts-hangers since most of the services will only be maintenance work.

The future of the industry (I think), will revolve around low-paid guys doing maintenance, and a small handful of "real" techs who show up when something in the monitors goes wrong. 

Not sure about how things are in your area, but here in the USA it's already happening.  It won't be long until guys like us are barely needed at all ... at least until the diagnostic machines break

Brad H wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 4:11pm:



Gambler, heh?


Brad H wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 4:11pm:



Things like checking for leaking/worn struts, loose wheel hub bearings, worn bushings, tire wear, fluid leaks, etc aren't exactly difficult nor do they require "skilled" techs.  These are exactly the kind of things that fall under the banner of "low paid maintenance work".

Brad H wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 4:11pm:



Not sure how things work in Austraila, but based on my experience in the US most shops aren't flipping through data lists when a car comes in for normal service.  If it runs ok, the warning lights aren't on, and it can pass emissions certification (where required), no one is interested in fixing or diagnosing anything. 

Brad H wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 4:11pm:


The need for this type of heavy engine work is already much lower today than it was years ago.  In a few more years it will be even less "normal" to be pulling intakes, oil pans, and timing covers. 

Brad H wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 4:11pm:



As did you, Brad

Brad H wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 4:11pm:


We live, and work, in very different environments


Heavy engine repair, performance diagnostics, and electrical troubleshooting aren't going to die out tomorrow.  It's a long road ahead, but the direction (I believe) has been established. 

It's not unbelievable to think that some of us may live to see the last ICE to ever roll of an assembly line in a passenger vehicle platform.

Many skilled techs are already finding it hard to locate long term employment that they can enjoy and depend on for the long haul.  Many more have already jumped ship to find work in other industries.

I don't believe this trend will change.

To put what I am trying to say another way:
Simply imagine a world where journeymen are gone and nothing is left but parts hangers, really kickass on board monitors that are very accurate and rarely wrong,  and "field engineers" who show up when the monitors strike out.

Derreck wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 5:44pm:


If they want to pick and chose the sort of work they undertake, then yeah, this will result in inconsistent work and moving on might be best.
There's only so much work available to a Prima Dona technician that won't check some ball joints or do a brake job..

And no that wasn't an angry response to your reply, I actually thought about this reply for a while before hitting send... 

Brad H wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 9:45pm:



If I owned a shop, I wouldn't operate it under that outline either.  I'm simply saying what I have seen in my time in the industry (albeit shorter than most of the guys here).


Brad H wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 9:45pm:



I understand your point of view.  I'm not saying that there aren't SKILLED techs doing these jobs.  I'm just saying that it doesn't require a top-tier tech to get it done.  The labor guide lists most of these jobs as "C" or "B" skill level at the most.  Most shops/dealers would rather save money by paying a lower-tiered guy LESS to do the job than paying an upper-tiered guy MORE.  Would the quality and consistency be as high?  Not a chance!  But that's the way the "business" mentality has pushed things in most places around here.

Brad H wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 9:45pm:



I would agree.  But that's the way it's getting done most places and I just don't see it changing very soon.  Checking for codes is one thing, but there are very few shops (like yours) who are actually taking the time to look at live data and draw conclusions.  Big tip of the hat to you on that one, BTW.


Brad H wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 10:26pm:


Nor is this an angry reply to yours

It's healthy to have these discussions as long as everyone respects each others opinions and no one gets angry


I meant no insult to you or your business.  I know that you are doing a great job and providing top quality service to your customers.

I merely am pointing out how things will likely go if current trends continue (in MY mind's eye).

For the record, I'm out there getting my hands dirty everyday to

I don't get a lot of R&R jobs, but I do get some, and regularly pitch in to help the other guys with their jobs as well when I'm not covered up in something else.

I meant to add that the main reason shops are having a difficult time with mechanics is down south there is a quick oil change on every corner.Auto parts stores offering free diagnostics.Now that is a fucking joke,actually had customers bring in printouts from autozone telling me their problem.Using global interface.Sorry ranting now