The Autonerdz Community Forums - New pico transducer

jarvissamuel Super Nerd Picogroup Offline I love YaBB 1G - SP1! Posts: 1,154 Denver Colorado Colorado USA	New pico transducer Aug 16^th, 2008 at 3:40pm Looks like pico has released a new product http://press.picotech.com/pr/en/automotive-pressure-transducer.html Sam
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Tom Roberts Autonerdz Administrator Picogroup Offline Autonerdz Founder Posts: 8,598 Olympia Washington USA Gender:	Re: New pico transducer Reply #1 - Aug 16^th, 2008 at 6:42pm Sam, This is not available yet but the specs are impressive. As soon as I can get my hands on one, I will do some testing on it and compare to the PV 350. The release is probably a month off yet.
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joecar+ Guru Member Picogroup Offline Posts: 443 Southern California California USA	Re: New pico transducer Reply #2 - Aug 16^th, 2008 at 7:16pm Interesting... Does it measure pressure or change-of-pressure...? It says it can be used for fuel pressure... does that mean you can connect it directly to the fuel rail, or do you have to keep it isolated from getting "wet"...?
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Carl Grotti

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Re: New pico transducer
Reply #3 - Aug 17^th, 2008 at 9:01am

Hi Joe,

Tom has a full plate right now, so I'll try to answer the best I can.

The new transducer that will be introduced should be impervious to fuel. It will measure direct pressure, not just a change like the FLS does very well I might add.

Rest assured that Tom and I will test it fully when made available.

The press release slipped out a little prematurely. It will happen though when a small issue with it is corrected.

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Carl Grotti
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Rick Hill LSD Guide Picogroup Offline Deceased Posts: 660 Gender:	Re: New pico transducer Reply #4 - Aug 17^th, 2008 at 10:26am Carl I didn't see any mention of the ranges. Do you happen to know what pressure ranges will be incorporated into it? I like the idea of 100u sec response time.
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Jim_Wilson

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Re: New pico transducer
Reply #5 - Aug 17^th, 2008 at 11:28am

Quote:

This is not available yet but the specs are impressive. As soon as I can get my hands on one, I will do some testing on it and compare to the PV 350.

At twice the price the PV350, it will need to jump through some serious hoops...

But I'll be looking for your review...

Quote:

The new transducer that will be introduced should be impervious to fuel.

I bought my PV350 specifically as a fuel pressure gauge replacement. Is there a problem I should be aware of? I'm really bad at reading the small (and even medium) print...

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Jim_Wilson

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Re: New pico transducer
Reply #6 - Aug 17^th, 2008 at 12:01pm

I answered my own question. From Fluke:

Quote:

The PV350 is compatible with industrial gases and liquids that are compatible with 316 stainless steel.

My first instinctive thought is that the only real additional "hoop" is that of zooming in on intake pulses. In which case (if true) there is the matter of the elephant in the room. That of interpretation. The same elephant that has been ignored with the FLS.

Perhaps, though, with the ability to zoom in on actual pressure FLS waveform interpretation may become much simpler and useful. (side by side comparison)

The PV350 performance on intake vacuum doesn't seem to be any better than (for instance) a GM MAP sensor.

As for this new transdeucers response time, just how fast do

meaningful

pressure changes inside the manifold take place? There are lots of spikes and dips within subsections of the manifold/intake tract that are localized and do not represent the total flow (end to end)

These are just instinctive and not well contemplated thoughts... I will be very interested in any diagnostic breakthroughs that this tool might bring. Though I am somewhat pessimistic Wink

But will be happy to be wrong on that.

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Rick Hill

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Re: New pico transducer
Reply #7 - Aug 17^th, 2008 at 12:18pm

HI Jim
My interest in the response time was only that they would more closely relate to electrical signals time wise. If I'm just watching a pressure wave the response time doesn't matter so much. I agree with you on the dollar value so I won't just jump up and buy one until I see a real advantage over the pv-350. Seems like the more I look at pressure waves the more I find there is only so much you can do with them anyway.

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joecar+

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Re: New pico transducer
Reply #8 - Aug 18^th, 2008 at 10:10am

Jim_Wilson wrote on Aug 17^th, 2008 at 11:28am:

...
Is there a problem I should be aware of? I'm really bad at reading the small (and even medium) print...

Jim,

From my own reading/understanding of the First Look Sensor is that there are two versions of FLS:
- the "gaseous" version,
- the liquid version;

From what I understood, the gaseous version must not be gotten "wet".

Joe

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Jim_Wilson Super Nerd Picogroup Offline nothing to say Posts: 929	Re: New pico transducer Reply #9 - Aug 18^th, 2008 at 3:02pm Hi Joe, I was speaking of the PV350 since Carl had noted that the PICO transdeucer was ok with fuel. Being more than twice the price, the pico unit needs to bring something new to the table. And perhaps it does with adaptors etc... Time will tell, I'm looking forward to Toms comparison with an open mind.
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fisher Super Nerd Picogroup Offline Deceased Posts: 2,734 Concord California USA Gender:	Re: New pico transducer Reply #10 - Aug 18^th, 2008 at 3:04pm I like the zoom feature.
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Jim_Wilson

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Re: New pico transducer
Reply #11 - Aug 18^th, 2008 at 3:41pm

fisher wrote on Aug 18^th, 2008 at 3:04pm:

I like the zoom feature.

Yes, but it begs the question... Does it give you any more useable information?

And again, pressure spikes/dips can be localized and not representative of the actual flow we're interested in. Is it possible that it will only be amplying what is essentially "noise"?

In which case we'll be adjusting the bit filters... ??

It does look snazzier than the PV350... As of yet, we don't know what kind of (if any) interfacing hardware it comes with. That could explain the price difference.

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mwebb

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Re: New pico transducer
Reply #12 - Aug 25^th, 2008 at 8:50pm

pressure / vacuum on the oil stick .
individual pressure or vacuum pulses do matter , in this waveform i could sync to 2ndary spark and ID which cylinder has high[er] piston ring blowby relative to another cylinder in the engine ...
but i guess in the end it doesnt matter ...
if one ring set is bad they all get replaced anyway.
because of the scaling you can not do this with a Fluke PV 350.
you can do it with a FLS 100 , but there will not be a value , just a waveform , usable but not as usable .

the new transducer should be able to do this , using Pico scope and as such ,
imho , it will be worth the price .

as long as the zero is set to ambient pressure BEFORE capturing any waveforms , the pressure / vacuum values will be accurate .

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2000_toyota_corolla_Pressure_on_the_Oil_stick_WOT_snap_ATS.jpg (1272 KB | )

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