I was searching the web on the Pico NVH and came upon a 5 part video series a gentleman at a college put together.

Really nice documentation in my opinion. I am not into vibrations diagnostics to much, but if Tom can give me a deal on the tool and I can make a $$$ and learn something. I am all in for it ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpzgy1OkJns

Abndanger wrote on Apr 1^st, 2015 at 5:15pm:

I was searching the web on the Pico NVH and came upon a 5 part video series a gentleman at a college put together. Really nice documentation in my opinion.

It's not to bad for a beginning look into this subject


Abndanger wrote on Apr 1^st, 2015 at 5:15pm:

I am not into vibrations diagnostics to much,

Whole new world. The tool when trained and used correctly makes you look like the hero when others are chasing there tails.


Abndanger wrote on Apr 1^st, 2015 at 5:15pm:

but if Tom can give me a deal on the tool and I can make a $$$ and learn something. I am all in for it ;)

Now now... Would you like that if your customers walked in and said that to you in the beginning of a purchase?


Abndanger wrote on Apr 1^st, 2015 at 5:15pm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpzgy1OkJns

That takes to the final video of 5. It's good to watch them all.   [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Spence wrote on Apr 1^st, 2015 at 6:10pm:

Now now... Would you like that if your customers walked in and said that to you in the beginning of a purchase

Once in a while with my long term loyal customers. I through them a bone and give them a deal ;)


Spence wrote on Apr 1^st, 2015 at 6:10pm:

That takes to the final video of 5. It's good to watch them all

I did go through the other video's. Been watching them for the past two days. The evolution of the NVH has come a long ways.

The issue with the other tools is being outdate and the more modern you got the software got outdated.


Spence wrote on Apr 1^st, 2015 at 6:10pm:

Whole new world. The tool when trained and used correctly makes you look like the hero when others are chasing there tails.

This is so true. I think the ROI could be seen in one year.

The thing I would like to try is to use the tool on the engine. Wonder how sensitive the tool is for lets say a misfire or using it for other practices.

I would like to see the microphone in operation. I wonder what uses we would have for it.  ;)

I would like to demo one of the tools to find out. May be see if my buddy at the GM dealer has theirs and see if I can use it.

It's not like the use it anyway. Most stuff like this sits on the self ;D

If PID data is used with the MongoosePro® Vehicle Interface Cable then we should be able to achieve the same with the Picoscope 6 software as previously noted in Picoscope suggestions,mpart of my current bucket list.

I note that the MongoosePro Cable has CAN as well as ISO 9141.

I wonder which of these the Pico NVH software uses or if it is variable.

Logic wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2015 at 6:28am:

If PID data is used with the MongoosePro® Vehicle Interface Cable then we should be able to achieve the same with the Picoscope 6 software as previously noted in Picoscope suggestions,mpart of my current bucket list. I note that the MongoosePro Cable has CAN as well as ISO 9141. I wonder which of these the Pico NVH software uses or if it is variable.

I believe it is variable. Shall we find out?

Spence wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2015 at 7:03am:

Logic wrote on Apr 2nd, 2015 at 6:28am: If PID data is used with the MongoosePro® Vehicle Interface Cable then we should be able to achieve the same with the Picoscope 6 software as previously noted in Picoscope suggestions,mpart of my current bucket list. I note that the MongoosePro Cable has CAN as well as ISO 9141. I wonder which of these the Pico NVH software uses or if it is variable. I believe it is variable. Shall we find out?

I think we should, BMW does not have CAN at the OBD II plug.

It would be great to be able to select a PID or a CAN message (tapping into a CAN line in my case) and get the variable in the Picoscope window.

Naturally we all understand this cannot achieve the sample rate that we all have with our normal connection but non the less a very useful addition.

Also note with this method we could have more than one PID or CAN I.D. being graphed at the same time.

A further article on NVH

http://www.interworldna.com/pico/automotive/nvh_vw_rabbit.php

Logic wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2015 at 1:51pm:

A further article on NVHhttp://www.interworldna.com/pico/automotive/nvh_vw_rabbit.php

Ian, that was a really nice article. Do you have the NVH tester at your disposal?

I contacted my friend at the dealer today. They are actually waiting for their kit. They have 20 Chevy pick ups experiencing vibration issues right now. Gm engineering the dealer to rule out all possibilities before condemning frame issues.

With this being said, GM has revamped their frames with a body design change which is raising havoc with NVH issues.

Curious to see what GM will do to resolve this.

Abndanger wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2015 at 4:56pm:

Logic wrote on Apr 2nd, 2015 at 1:51pm: A further article on NVHhttp://www.interworldna.com/pico/automotive/nvh_vw_rabbit.php Ian, that was a really nice article. Do you have the NVH tester at your disposal? I contacted my friend at the dealer today. They are actually waiting for their kit. They have 20 Chevy pick ups experiencing vibration issues right now. Gm engineering the dealer to rule out all possibilities before condemning frame issues. With this being said, GM has revamped their frames with a body design change which is raising havoc with NVH issues. Curious to see what GM will do to resolve this.

Probably hang a weight at a certain location to dampen and/or change the frequency.

Bob, The dealership that I work at used to have  Oldsmobile. A GM special tool was a EVA (electronic vibration analyzer)  it worked on the same principle as the link Mr.Logic posted.  Excellent tool  I wish we still had it, when Olds went out we had to send back all special tools, parts ect.

Your friend at GM should have access to this, or maybe the dealer would sell the EVA  if they are made to switch to  Pico NVH tooling. ;)

Logic wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2015 at 1:51pm:

A further article on NVH http://www.interworldna.com/pico/automotive/nvh_vw_rabbit.php

Thanks for the link!   [smiley=smiley.gif]

Abndanger wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2015 at 4:56pm:

Logic wrote on Apr 2nd, 2015 at 1:51pm: A further article on NVHhttp://www.interworldna.com/pico/automotive/nvh_vw_rabbit.php Ian, that was a really nice article. Do you have the NVH tester at your disposal? I contacted my friend at the dealer today. They are actually waiting for their kit. They have 20 Chevy pick ups experiencing vibration issues right now. Gm engineering the dealer to rule out all possibilities before condemning frame issues. With this being said, GM has revamped their frames with a body design change which is raising havoc with NVH issues. Curious to see what GM will do to resolve this.

No I do not have access to one, but I find the discussion here on it enlightening.

It is great to consider the possibilities of where we can go, what we can do and what can be added to with our Picoscopes.

I find the discussion here a constant primer for my thoughts, I have you all to thank for that.

Abndanger wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2015 at 4:56pm:

Logic wrote on Apr 2nd, 2015 at 1:51pm: A further article on NVHhttp://www.interworldna.com/pico/automotive/nvh_vw_rabbit.php Ian, that was a really nice article. Do you have the NVH tester at your disposal? I contacted my friend at the dealer today. They are actually waiting for their kit. They have 20 Chevy pick ups experiencing vibration issues right now. Gm engineering the dealer to rule out all possibilities before condemning frame issues. With this being said, GM has revamped their frames with a body design change which is raising havoc with NVH issues. Curious to see what GM will do to resolve this.

No I do not have access to one, but I find the discussion here on it enlightening.

It is great to consider the possibilities of where we can go, what we can do and what can be added to with our Picoscopes.

I find the discussion here a constant primer for my thoughts, I have you all to thank for that.

I did talk to Tom yesterday about the tool. He has them on the shelf and has sold a couple.

I asked if he had any feedback from his customers in regards to the tools performance and he said no.

He mention they have tried it a couple of times, but Andrew is the one who has used it the most.


HarleyMike wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2015 at 5:16pm:

Bob, The dealership that I work at used to have  Oldsmobile. A GM special tool was a EVA (electronic vibration analyzer)  it worked on the same principle as the link Mr.Logic posted.  Excellent tool  I wish we still had it, when Olds went out we had to send back all special tools, parts ect.Your friend at GM should have access to this, or maybe the dealer would sell the EVA  if they are made to switch to  Pico NVH tooling

Mike, I have heard the EVA works good. The issue is theirs is broken and they are trying to get a rush on the new one before their CSI goes in the drink.

Told him if they let me borrow the tool I will give them a basic class on the potential use of the Pico scope in return. The scope is just not for NVA.

This way they can purchase all the accessories from Tom and be able to broaden their horizon's :)

Ian, not to change up subject. Have you used the Pico on Flex Ray yet in the F series BMW's. If so, what is your experience?

No experience with Flex ray as yet.

Narrowly avoided a Byteflight last week after the owner expected me to quote analysis......screw that......told the fellow I was not going to inherit his problems, I would fix it but not own it. He would not accept that so conversation ended.

I have mainly dealt with CAN, then LIN and BSD.

My decoding and reverse engineering has been progressing on CAN.

Logic wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2015 at 11:34am:

Spence wrote on Apr 2nd, 2015 at 7:03am: Logic wrote on Apr 2nd, 2015 at 6:28am: If PID data is used with the MongoosePro® Vehicle Interface Cable then we should be able to achieve the same with the Picoscope 6 software as previously noted in Picoscope suggestions,mpart of my current bucket list. I note that the MongoosePro Cable has CAN as well as ISO 9141. I wonder which of these the Pico NVH software uses or if it is variable. I believe it is variable. Shall we find out? I think we should

So do I... Fair enough... Brian send one of these bad boys my way and we'll check it out.  8-)

I own the EVA as well as the NVH 4000/4100 to run with it. So far from what I have seen the PICO's software mirrors the NVH 4000/4100.

Happy Easter everyone!

Spence wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2015 at 8:55am:

Brian send one of these bad boys my way and we'll check it out.

On it's way Spence.

Logic wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2015 at 5:55am:

No experience with Flex ray as yet.

I would have thought you have dabbled already. If you do, can you pot up some captures :)


Logic wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2015 at 5:55am:

Narrowly avoided a Byteflight last week after the owner expected me to quote analysis......screw that......told the fellow I was not going to inherit his problems, I would fix it but not own it. He would not accept that so conversation ended.I have mainly dealt with CAN, then LIN and BSD. My decoding and reverse engineering has been progressing on CAN

I know all about (Dutch) customers ;D

Be honest I don't know what BSD is. I will have to do some research on it :)


Spence wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2015 at 8:55am:

I own the EVA as well as the NVH 4000/4100 to run with it. So far from what I have seen the PICO's software mirrors the NVH 4000/4100.Happy Easter everyone!

Hey Spence, have you every used it for engine vibration? Is it sensitive enough to detect a engine misfire? Just curious ;)

Have a Happy Easter as well :) :)


Brian Haley wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2015 at 11:31am:

On it's way Spence

Heck Brian if your allowing us to trial run one. I will demo one and give you feedback :)

BSD = BIT SERIAL DATA

I think it is just a simple bit sequence communication, very simple and limited.

My investigations usually have a diagnostic association, Thus little faults in a system little practical need for investigation.

I'm very keen on CAN reverse engineering or rather CAN database files, again from a diagnostic standpoint, I see Tom has made reference today in another thread to CAN and the relevance of decoding, clearly there is going to be a diversity of views and these can be valid dependent of your perspective, however if you do not investigate you will never know.

The other issue is that we all have limited time.

Logic wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2015 at 5:29pm:

I'm very keen on CAN reverse engineering or rather CAN database files, again from a diagnostic standpoint, I see Tom has made reference today in another thread to CAN and the relevance of decoding, clearly there is going to be a diversity of views and these can be valid dependent of your perspective, however if you do not investigate you will never know

Ian, I know a lot of people do not see a use in CAN decoding. I myself could see a couple uses. For instance, you have a vehicle which is experiencing a parasitic load. There is a module staying active on the bus. You connect your scope to the dlc. After all the modules have gone to sleep you can see activity. If you can identify this module then you can narrow down the circuit.

Second, I had an issue a couple years ago whereby a customer replaced a PCM in a Chrysler product. I programmed the PCM and had to go to the WCM to transfer the Security code to the PCM.

Issue is the WCM said the procedure was complete. Vehicle would not start. Now who is at fault. PCM or WCM. I could not prove the WCM sent the coding. Nor could I prove the PCM received it. But if I had my scope hooked up and was able to decode the modules. I could have been able to see if the RX or TX signal was sent.

Just my thoughts here and views. It all depends on how proficient you want to be and how much you want to learn.

Time is always and enemy we face. Between work, family and our personal ventures. Life is short :)

Brian Haley wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2015 at 11:31am:

Spence wrote on Apr 3rd, 2015 at 8:55am: Brian send one of these bad boys my way and we'll check it out. On it's way Spence.

Thanks Brian! Lookin forward to putting it through its' paces.   [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Abndanger wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2015 at 2:21pm:

I know all about (Dutch) customers ;D

Hmmmmmmm...


Spence wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2015 at 8:55am:

I own the EVA as well as the NVH 4000/4100 to run with it. So far from what I have seen the PICO's software mirrors the NVH 4000/4100.Happy Easter everyone!

Abndanger wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2015 at 2:21pm:

Hey Spence, have you every used it for engine vibration? Is it sensitive enough to detect a engine misfire? Just curious ;)

Yup.



Abndanger wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2015 at 2:21pm:

Have a Happy Easter as well :) :)

Thanks!


Brian Haley wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2015 at 11:31am:

On it's way Spence

Abndanger wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2015 at 2:21pm:

Heck Brian if your allowing us to trial run one. I will demo one and give you feedback :)

It's real easy... Just give him the credit card number.  You're not Dutch are ya?

Brian you did send me a PICO and not a Poico one correct?   ::)

Spence wrote on Apr 4^th, 2015 at 6:20am:

Abndanger wrote Yesterday at 6:30pm:Hey Spence, have you every used it for engine vibration? Is it sensitive enough to detect a engine misfire? Just curious  Yup.

Got any captures or something you could post up of your experience :)


Spence wrote on Apr 4^th, 2015 at 6:20am:

Abndanger wrote Yesterday at 6:30pm:Heck Brian if your allowing us to trial run one. I will demo one and give you feedback  It's real easy... Just give him the credit card number.  You're not Dutch are ya?

Nope not Dutch thank God. They do rub off on you when you have a population percentage of 75% Dutch community. Seems like everyone's last name starts with a Van or something to that affect ;D

Before I buy a tool. Normally demo it or research it. Not on a whim to buy things. That is why I do a lot of scan tool comparisons. Unless you have OE. Most AM tools are junk but a good AM tool which does the basics is needed at times ;)

To respond to your post #24

I have captures saved in my NVH 4000/4100. I view them on the tool. Vetronix (now Bosch) has a program called Shop Foreman Pro. I do not have that loaded on anything at this time. As mentioned from what I have seen of the Pico it mirrors a lot of the NVH 4000/4100 screens I have seen.

I have had vibrations caused by the wrong torque convertor on different engines such as a 383 Chrysler that gave me a "1st order" engine vibration. I have removed a plug wire and have seen 1st order as well. Yet it was a big difference in how high of a "g" force and got worse with rpm with the out of balance torque convertor vs the engine miss.

When I receive my new Pico NVH next week we'll see how it goes and I''ll report it so you can then step up and buy yours.   ;)

As far as other equipment and not at all limited to scan tools... Yeah I do my research but at times I have to go with my gut and experience as I try not to follow but lead when it comes to my business. It keeps us on the edge.   

To sum it up I am an equipment and technology junkie as well.  8-)

Spence wrote on Apr 4^th, 2015 at 6:13pm:

When I receive my new Pico NVH next week we'll see how it goes and I''ll report it so you can then step up and buy yours.

Keep us informed.

After watching the videos linking in the first post I'm looking at one, and defiantly something new to learn.

I always struggle on wheel speed vibrations and pinpiont the vibrations, have a quite a few tyres cause headaches.

Spence wrote on Apr 4^th, 2015 at 6:13pm:

I have had vibrations caused by the wrong torque convertor on different engines such as a 383 Chrysler that gave me a "1st order" engine vibration. I have removed a plug wire and have seen 1st order as well. Yet it was a big difference in how high of a "g" force and got worse with rpm with the out of balance torque convertor vs the engine miss

This is what I was wondering. How far can we diagnose a vibration or misfire or any other issue for this matter. I can visualize the tool doing much much more :)


Spence wrote on Apr 4^th, 2015 at 6:13pm:

When I receive my new Pico NVH next week we'll see how it goes and I''ll report it so you can then step up and buy yours.

This I would really like to see. I have to admit I am curious as to how well this tool will work and ad me diagnosing vehicles.

More than likely I will buy it. Anything which saves me time and ads in diagnostics I usually acquire ;)


Spence wrote on Apr 4^th, 2015 at 6:13pm:

As far as other equipment and not at all limited to scan tools... Yeah I do my research but at times I have to go with my gut and experience as I try not to follow but lead when it comes to my business. It keeps us on the edge.   To sum it up I am an equipment and technology junkie as well

In our type of market we have to stay a head of the curve and capture more of the competitors market.

So many shops are starting to fall to the way side when it comes to technology. I see it every day when they drop off their vehicle's they are in over their head on.

Some are easy fixes and other, well lets say its a challenge :D

I do like good equipment and the proper tools. I hate being limited in diagnostics ;)


Anthony Lamb wrote on Apr 4^th, 2015 at 6:40pm:

I always struggle on wheel speed vibrations and pinpiont the vibrations, have a quite a few tyres cause headaches

Anthony, trust me. You are not the only one who has troubles with vibration diagnostics :)

Hey guys

been following this thread and wanting to know what are your overall impressions? How is it working? is it the best thing since sliced bread?  ;D ;D

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